What drives exJWs to atheism?

by ros 108 Replies latest jw friends

Sunchild

I would like lurking JWs and others to realize--regardless of your own convictions--that these people do NOT represent the Biblical premise of all Christians. To JWs entertaining doubts, that kind of Christianity is NOT the only alternative!

And Christianity itself isn't the only alternative, either.
What I've noticed more than anything is that both on this board and on Atheist discussion boards I've visited (but not posted on since I prefered not to intrude) is the tendency for "God" to always mean the same thing: the exclusively male, demanding, and often cruel Christian deity. Once that deity is abandoned, apparently, so is the very concept of all things spiritual for some. After all, if the one "true" God is false, how can any other concept be useful or valid? Or so the mindset seems to be. I'm inclined to agree with the person here who linked this to a fear of being hurt or duped again.
I've also noticed a weird sort of arrogance among some people who embrace Atheism. It becomes more than just an outlook or opinion: it becomes a sign (at least to them and others like them) of belonging to some sort of intellectual elite. Truthfully, it looks to me like the mirror image of the arrogance Christian Fundies have about their alleged monopoly on life's truths.
Then, there are the ones who take it for pretty much what it is: the belief that there is no God. I've even run across some Neopagan atheists before, so I think it's fair to say that whether or not you believe in a personal deity -- let alone the Xtian one -- has nothing to do with how spiritual you are.
The point of all this? I don't really know. <g> I guess I just felt like pointing out that abandoning Christianity doesn't have to mean abandoning your spirituality, and that being an atheist doesn't mean this, either. You have to find your own path. You have to search your soul until you find what's right for you.
*Rochelle.
---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."
Mulan

Excellent post, Sunshine. I agree with you too.
My feelings are that the Jehovah I used to worship is not God. My brother calls him "Hitler in the sky"........but he is an atheist too.
My God is loving and kind, and doesn't demand the constant sacrifice, and undying 'worship' and continuous communication, that Jehovah required. I am totally turned off by that name now.
I don't call my father by his name, but he is Dad. So God is Father, and that's that. My Dad let me grow up, and not need to ask his advice on everything, but if I were to want his advice, he is there for me. Bill Bowen has made some good points about that subject. Maybe he will post it one day. I totally agree with him. (Maybe he did it already.)
Marilyn (Mulan) who is coming around to thinking HE really is out there. Boy, it's been a long journey.
teejay

Rochelle and Mulan? I think your two posts fit together very well. Taken together, they answer Roz' question of why people -- specifically JWs -- become atheists/agnostics very well. Ex-JWs quit believing in the Watchtowers concept of god. It does not, however, cause them to leave spirituality all together.
spinner

Dedalus, you asked me to give you an example of "mistakes, and whole
sentences changed. OK
1. Revelation 22:14 says(NWT)," Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority (to go) the trees of life may be their..." The oldest known MS says,"Blessed are those doing the commandments of Him so the authority to the tree of life may be theirs."
2. Isaiah 65:22 says(NWT),"For like the days of a tree will the days
of my people be" The oldest known MS says, "My peopole will live as
long as the tree of life lives."
3. Matthew 24 uses the Greek word "parousia" and translates it, pre-
sence. In Greek, it means, alongside, the substance of the female.
4. The calendar God gave Moses in the book of Exodus was called the
Abib. It was taken away when the Isrealites went into capitivity in
Babylon. The calendar they still use, is the Babylonian, which is
inaccurate, and even uses a Babylonian god's name for the name of one
of it's months.The Society has the original Abib Calendar, and even
refers to it in the large brown NWT on page 23 footnote 11*"second",
and 24 footnote 13*,"First month". The first month Nisan, in spring,is
the Babyonian first month, and as you can see, the first month in the
footnote Gen 8:13 shows the original was the latter half of September,
first half of October. I have the original calendar, and would be
happy to send it to you, if the Society refused a request from you.
dedalus

Spinner,
Thanks for the information; translation is indeed a messy business, and it takes a good student of languages to sort it out. However, I don't see anything in your examples that makes the God of the OT any less of an asshole. I'm not trying to offend you -- it's just that I stand against the killing of babies, the slaughter of children, the raping of virgins, and the elimination of peaceful civilizations.
Respectfully Yours,
Dedalus
JanH

Rochelle,
Then, there are the ones who take it for pretty much what it is: the belief that there is no God.
An important, but seemingly subtle difference: Atheism is absense of belief in a god or gods.
I've also noticed a weird sort of arrogance among some people who embrace Atheism.

If we are to apply this as an argument against non-theism, I have to point out it is an ad hominem, which is a fallacy in logic.
This is a blanket statement that really cannot be tested. Are atheists arrogant? Some are, some are not. I think the same applies to e.g. wiccans. Some non-theists may appear arrogant because they are tired of seeing the arrogant ignorance so typically displayed by believers, who always declare their moral superiority in insisting that everybody who do not believe their particular branch of superstition has to be immoral and evil. Atheists everywhere experience they have to follow laws that exist for no other reason than religious lawmakers thinking some superhuman being once dictated certain nonnegotiable rules about e.g. sexuality. Moreover, atheists in some countries (especially the USA) experience constant harrassment and discrimination from believers.
The temptation to really shove the stupidity of supernaturalism down the believers' throats when they are dumb enough to engage atheists in an open debate is often overwhelming. Thus what you perceive as arrogance.
One can of course also argue that the accusation of arrogance is a red herring from supernaturalists who know they get nowhere trying to defend their ideas logically, so they have to use this ad hominem.
- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]
JanH

Mulan,
My opinion: Arguing, or discussing, whether God exists is as pointless as discussing whether the Trinity is a true teaching of the Bible. Neither side is likely to convince the other.

Totally untrue. The reason that such a disproportionate number of exJWs on these message boards are non-believers, is presicely because of the theism debates (and all the other good information easily available on the Net). There is an open debate of issues, and in public debates good ideas float and bad ideas sink. Theism is losing ground on these message boards.
When I came to H2O, I was a theist. Me and other atheists/agnostics on this board were once theists, and stopped believing in a deity because we saw that the arguments against theism was overwhelming.
The articles I read on various quality atheist/skeptic web sites, especially http://www.infidels.org/ was what convinced me that I was indeed an atheist (note how that works: you don't decide to become one, you discover that you are).
Exposed to the same evidence, intellectually honest people tend to arrive at much the same conclusions.
- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]
spinner

Dedalus: You speak of the slaughter of children, and harm to others
ordered by God say for example in the land of Canaan? I used to be
hurt that the God I worshipped could order the killing of entire cities, then, I read about early man, who ate their parents when they
reached a certain age, and other horrible unclean practices. One per-
son told me, mother rattlers raise baby rattlers. When you really
care to know why God ordered such acts, you try to understand. We
can always search for something to stumble us. If you are a parent,
your children don't always know why you do what you do. How can we
always feel we are capable of understanding the mind of God?
peaceloveharmony

just jumping in here to say that i am enjoying this discussion an awful lot.
jan, you said
Me and other atheists/agnostics on this board were once theists, and stopped believing in a deity because we saw that the arguments against theism was overwhelming.

this statement is true about me. when i first started reading H2O about 10 months ago, i had been doing a lot of thinking about god. about this same time, i began checking out wiccan websites and bought a bunch of books about paganism and wicca. fast forward to december 2000, witnet closes and i see a link for simon's board and i join. so for about a year, i've been reading, soaking up a lot of info from these discussion boards and books. and i've discovered that *I*, personally, do not need faith or belief in god/gods/goddesses to live an enjoyable and fulfulling life. i alone am responsible for that. so thank you to all who respond to posts like this for helping me and others on our journeys.
love
harmony
"Power doesn't mean you're acting like a man, or you're a bully or a bitch. It's that you don't let people step on you"
-Sharon Monplaisir
Sunchild

Hi, Jan!
An important, but seemingly subtle difference: Atheism is absense of belief in a god or gods.

Atheism: The belief that there is no God.
I lifted the definition right from Webster's New World Dictionary. If you disagree with it, please take it up with them.
This is a blanket statement that really cannot be tested. Are atheists arrogant? Some are, some are not.

Which is precisely what I said. Here's my quote again, word for word, emphasis added:
I've also noticed a weird sort of arrogance among some people who embrace Atheism.
You really should pay more attention.
*Rochelle.
---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

What drives exJWs to atheism?

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