To the theists (Christian or otherwise)....

by logansrun 80 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    First of all, I don't buy in to the equally powerful, ying/yang black/white evil/good dichotomy. I figure that good is inherently greater and more powerful than evil. Light is action and energy, and always defeats darkness. Darkness is inert, nothing, an absence of light.

    I am not sure that evil exists as an independent force, but I do believe that men are capable of evil acts. This ability is necessary if we were truly created with free will.

    When I suffered under an evil man, I wondered what took so long for God to answer. I don't believe a loving God would be impersonal about watching me suffer. Was He unable to intervene because of His self-imposed decision not to interfere with man's free will? Does He view our suffering differently, maybe likening it to a doctor's needle? Perhaps from his point of view, the pain is short-lived in light of eternity.

    Even now, my pain is only a memory, it is not a handicap. Rather, my experience has made me empathetic of the others' pain.

    Perhaps a few horrific events and tyrants affect society's soul, and wisen us up to avoid future horrors. No one wants another Hitler to succeed. The fear of another Hiroshima has kept our nuclear weapons mouldering in their caverns, thank God.

    I believe there is ultimate justice, at eternity. I wish eternal torment on Hitler, and I pray there is eternal comfort for the young, weak, and old who were overcome by evil here on earth.

    Even if my theism is myth, wouldn't this belief mark the way I treat others, now? If I truly believe good ultimately wins, wouldn't I do my best to live that good life, now?

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    jgnat,

    I am not sure that evil exists as an independent force, but I do believe that men are capable of evil acts. This ability is necessary if we were truly created with free will.

    Question: Does God have free will? If you respond, "Yes" then God must be capable of performing evil (capable in the real sense that he could choose evil, not just whether he has the power to create an act we call evil.)

    If you feel God does not have free will than does that not put your understanding of God in a very curious position?

    Bradley

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    jgnat,

    I am not sure that evil exists as an independent force, but I do believe that men are capable of evil acts. This ability is necessary if we were truly created with free will.

    Question: Does God have free will? If you respond, "Yes" then God must be capable of performing evil (capable in the real sense that he could choose evil, not just whether he has the power to create an act we call evil.)

    If you feel God does not have free will than does that not put your understanding of God in a very curious position?

    Bradley

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Yes, God has free will, and being perfect, choses good over evil.

    (I am pretty sure he was sorry for the flood thing, afterwards....)

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    jgnat,

    So, it's not a sure thing that God will always choose the good over evil then? In, say, a million years he might to perform evil acts?

    bradley

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    jgnat,

    So, it's not a sure thing that God will always choose the good over evil then? In, say, a million years he might to perform evil acts?

    bradley

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I know where you are going with this. Does a perfect being truly have free will, when there is really only one right choice?

    Well, if God is as he describes himself in the Bible, he does consistenly make right choices, but is also capable of regret. No, the NECESSITY for free will is not there, unless He himself were created by a higher power.

    However, if we are a creation of God's, and He truly desired us to seek Him out, naturally, unforced, we NEED free will. Otherwise, we might as well be a majestic Cedar, a powerful polar bear, or a heavenly angel singing his praises 'round the clock.

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32
    In, say, a million years he might to perform evil acts?

    He already has... he allowed Family Guy to be canceled.

  • Markfromcali
    Markfromcali
    I believe there is ultimate justice, at eternity. I wish eternal torment on Hitler, and I pray there is eternal comfort for the young, weak, and old who were overcome by evil here on earth.

    Why would you want eternal torment on anyone? What purpose does it serve, does torment bring comfort to anyone? What kind of mind would find comfort in torment, even if it's someone who has inflicted torment upon others? Isn't the goal to eliminate the torment?

    Can you see that this view of tormenting the tormenter actually reveals functioning from the same level of separation? Isn't this actually darkness upon darkness? Do you really mean this?

    Even if my theism is myth, wouldn't this belief mark the way I treat others, now? If I truly believe good ultimately wins, wouldn't I do my best to live that good life, now?

    If you do your best to live 'that good life' regardless of whether good ultimately wins, then I would say that is genuine. You can say that's the difference between belief and being. The problem with a standard of belief though is it's only a thought, a machine can be programmed to do those things. Love, on the other hand is a living reality with an intelligence beyond beliefs. It isn't about doing your best to live a certain way, the only question is whether that love is alive in you.

  • jgnat
    jgnat
    Can you see that this view of tormenting the tormenter actually reveals functioning from the same level of separation?

    I just don't buy this. I have had 'round the round arguments with my daughter on this same subject. In a nutshell, this is her argument.

    • All killing is bad.
    • Killing the killer is as bad as being a killer yourself.

    This argument only works if the first is an absolute. Having been on the receiving end of abuse, I believe there has to be a form of ultimate justice. And I don't believe that execution, or punishment, is the same as murder and torture. There is a difference.

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