by dustyb 27 Replies latest jw friends
XQs:
This is all a joke everyone is going to die.
Finally something I can agree with you about.
The only real question on that subject is "what happens next?"
They will spin out the "Nephinim class" thing, until it becomes a complete substitute for the "anointed class" thing. Before long it will become a distant memory to be devoted maybe half a page in a revised edition of the "Proclaimers" book (or sequel). They love their "things"...
Doubtfull --- If you could elaborate , I think it would be interesting .
LT -- True in this world everyone dies but the bible makes it sound more like it's not when you die but how you die . It looks to me as if everything is sorta like the cain and able story when it comes to how people die . Revelations sure makes it look that way for those who are holy and chosen by saying they are killed for being faithful to God . In the grand climax book I noticed the WTBTS says that some may be killed but that's not what revelation says .
I have read alot about the goings on at bethel brooklyn off this site and from what I see are a group of people that have body guards and seldom leave the security of the WTBTS surroundings . I for one would think that they would lead by example and take some risks .
Now there's an interesting topic - "Martyrdom".
We haven't had that one for a while.
Alas, subject matter for another thread, maybe.
Good point though.
I'm guessing that the QFR that Amazing mentioned above was this one:
***
w52 1/15 pp. 63-64 Questions from Readers ***?
How can one determine whether he is of the anointed class, and hence should partake of the Memorial emblems??E. B., California.After Pentecost in the first century any who had the spirit of God, as evidenced by his having one or more gifts of the spirit, would have no difficulty deciding whether he was of the anointed class, for that was a time set aside exclusively for begetting heavenly heirs. On this firm foundation he would entertain heavenly hopes. Today the circumstances are altered. One may have dedicated himself to doing God?s will, symbolized that dedication, and demonstrated that he has the spirit of God by doing Jehovah?s will, doing it in the love of God and trying to imitate him and his dear Son; but how would he know that his having the spirit of God was assurance that he was going to heaven? The spirit of God is also on the "other sheep", and not just on the anointed remnant. So how can we determine the matter today?
It seems from the Scriptures that God was specially taking out the spiritual class up until 1931, in a general way, and this does have some bearing on the matter. However, it is not conclusive. Since 1931 there are those who have entered the service and who give evidence of being begotten by the spirit and who have their hopes set upon being of the heavenly heirs. So there is evidence of some coming into the heavenly class since 1931; though not on a general scale, but only individuals here and there who are taken in to fill up the places of some who may turn unfaithful.
You would have to examine yourself on this basis: "Have I dedicated my life to God through Jesus Christ to do his will forevermore? Do I have the spirit of God? Is God dealing with me? Yes, I have the evidence that God is dealing with me; he is using me in his service. He is providing for me. He is giving me a place in connection with his organization, and I am realizing many blessings, and am growing in the understanding of his Word. I have all of these indications that I have his spirit, and I am trying to act as a real Christian and follower of Christ Jesus would in displaying the spirit of the Lord in that way." This examination with the above-outlined results would indicate one had the spirit of the Lord, whether of the anointed class or of the "other sheep".
Then, what is the thing that draws the line of demarcation between the two classes and puts you either on the side of the "great crowd" or on the side of the anointed remnant? As you examine yourself you have to determine what your hope is, because God is dealing with you and is cultivating in you some sort of a hope. In Romans chapter 8 Paul discusses how "the spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God?s children" called to be joint heirs with Christ in the heavenly kingdom, and adds: "For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it?"?Rom. 8:16, 24, NW.
So, you see that you have to be saved in a certain hope. Now God deals with you and he must by his dealings with you and his revelations of truth to you cultivate in you some hope. If he cultivates in you the hope of going to heaven, that becomes a firm confidence of yours, and you are just swallowed up in that hope, so that you are talking as one who has the hope of going to heaven, you are counting on that, you are thinking that, you offer prayers to God in expression of that hope. You are setting that as your goal. It permeates your whole being. You cannot get it out of your system. It is the hope that engrosses you. Then it must be that God has aroused that hope and caused it to come to life in you, for it is not a natural hope for earthly man to entertain.
If you are one of the Jonadabs or one of the "great crowd" of good-will persons you will not be consumed by this heavenly hope. Some of the Jonadabs are very prominent in the Lord?s work and have an important part in it, but they do not have that hope when you talk to them. Their desires and hopes gravitate to the earthly things. They talk about the beautiful forests, how they would love to be a forester at the present time and have that as their continual surroundings, and they like to mingle with the animals and have dominion over them, and also the birds of the air and fish of the sea and everything that creeps over the face of the earth. That is what they love, and they are looking forward to enjoying those things. Oh, they understand their Bible. They have a very advanced comprehension of the doctrines and truths of the Bible. But when you talk to them, that is the way they express themselves. They have no desire for the heavenly things at all. They do not want to be like an angel, or even see God face to face, beholding him in his supernal glory. That would be wonderful, they admit, more so than any possible earthly blessings; but they just do not have such desires or hopes in them.
So, it seems that after you have inspected the matter of time, the possession of God?s spirit, his dealings with you, then you have to take into consideration, "What are my real, sincere, heartfelt hopes in this matter?" Then you decide your position; no one else can decide for you. Decide whether you have the consuming spiritual aspirations. If so, then follow through with those. That is in your system and you cannot get it out, so act accordingly. Participate in the Memorial emblems. Whereas, if you do not have that hope, if you are divided and uncertain, then it appears that you are of the earthly class, and hence should not partake of the emblems at Memorial time.
NeonMadman--- That's a pretty lame explanation . I wouldn't buy that for one minute . I also don't see what the lords evening meal has to do with it since both classes have to profess faith in that jesus christ died for the purpose of preserving them alive during the day of wrath on the nations . The jonadabs claim not to have spirit anyway so I don't see what the big deal is if they ate and drank during the ritual . It looks so stupid just passing stuff around and I also think it's a form of idolotry and an insult to God . I can't see how any anointed would subject themselves to the way the WTBTS performs the ceremony.
Heathen:
Each year it's crossed my mind whether or not I should go to the hall for the "annual Christ rejection ceremony", and each year I decline.
It's not what it's supposed to be, at all, as you rightly point out.
I love the way the article puts the emphasis on people having an inordinate desire to go to heaven (which no-one has ever seen, far less heard an awful lot about).
That's a bit of smoke, since the true reason is that folks want to be with Christ, who just happens to be in heaven.
If he were in Timbukto, the anointed would want to be there, hence it has little to do with "heaven" as a location!
This is the main reason that I reject all of the WTS teachings, because they are all slanted away from Christ. Some subtly, some blatantly, but ultimately they miss the whole point of the NT (and the OT, if you subscribe to the idea that the whole tome refers him as the "Messiah"), which IMHO is simply "Christ, and him crucified".
The Watchtower regards the entire 7th chapter of Revelation as highly symbolic.Yet they take,out of context the numerical 144,000 and say it's literal.
Furthermore,historical consensus finds that an estimated 250,000 early Christians died, many as martyrs in the first century alone,to fill the quota.
The Watchtower's Ivory tower dogma of only a,'little flock' of 144,000 JW elite going to heaven,is a component of what Randy Watters calls: Doctrine Over Person:[ Human experience is subordinated to doctrine, no matter how profound or contradictory such experiences seem. The history of the cult is altered to fit their doctrinal logic. The person is only valuable insomuch as they conform to the role models of the cult. Commonsense perceptions are disregarded if they are hostile to the cult's ideology.] The Watchtower also slams and smears all those who challenge their supremacist dogma,as 'haughty folk who all want to go to heaven and be boss'. I don't know bout yah'll,but I for one DON"T want to go to heaven. Moreover, I allowed these,blind leading the blind,senile old farts,to terrorize and boss my family since 1952. "GO UP, ALL YOU ANOINTED BALD HEADS" 2 KINGS 2:23-24 [The rural state of Maine USA is just loaded with,'she bears',come and get me.] |
NeonMadman--- That's a pretty lame explanation . I wouldn't buy that for one minute .
I agree. Of course, that's only their "technical explanation." In practice, when someone asks, "How do they know," the usual answer is, "They just know - the holy spirit reveals it to them. Now shut up and go peddle some magazines." (Or something like that )
