Hi, I'm Kibi! (page 2)

lollydawdle

Sunspot - good to know I wasn't the only one who took 30 years to come to my senses! LOL

Do hope that you and your hubby can exit together. It will be harder for him if he was raised up as a JW, as the programming was more deeply instilled. Many of us here were in for many years and left, so it is possible, but the breakaway can be tough. Without overwhelming hubby all at once there are things you could share with him that might be easier for him to process. The beginning of my end was doing cross referencing on some of the subjects in the WT --the inconsistencies of doctrine and instruction made me realize how unstable the religion was and how it was impossible to follow the ever changing law books of the WT publications. There are many sites that bring out these inconsistencies by cross referencing the WT magazines with each other. About the UNs involvement with the WTBTS; this information can be found on the UNs own website. If you need some help finding that there is a post in here somewhere that tells you how to navigate their site to find it. If you need some help with that send me a message and I will find it for you. There is much more proof out there is a person wants to see it. The problem is some are not willing or able to change. But there is life beyond the WT so keep on reading...

The best to you and hubby,

Love cybs

Nathan Natas

Hi Kibi,

I thought I'd offer some appropriate "spiritual nourishment" that your husband will not be able to claim is from "apostate" sources.

Note that while the very old "Watchtower Reprints" is no longer published by the Watchtower, it has, because of its age, gone into the "public domain" and is published and available today From Research Applications Iternational, who have a web site from which you can purchase their products, which cost less than the official Watchtower CDROM, by the way.

On to the spiritual snack! --

Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence October 1879 (reprint) p.38 "The Ten Virgins"

"We do not object to changing our opinions on any subject, or discarding former applications of prophecy, or any other scripture, when we see a good reason for the change,-in fact, it is important that we should be willing to unlearn errors and mere traditions, as to learn truth... It is our duty to "prove all things."?by the unerring Word,?"and hold fast to that which is good."

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Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence December 15 1896 (reprint) p.2080 "Worship the Lord in the Beauty of Holiness"

"Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible, or on a par with the holy Scriptures. The most we claim or have ever claimed for our teachings is that they are what we believe to be harmonious interpretations of the divine Word, in harmony with the spirit of the truth. And we still urge, as in the past, that each reader study the subjects we present in the light of the Scriptures, proving all things by the Scriptures, accepting what they see to be thus approved, and rejecting all else. It is to this end, to enable the student to trace the subject in the divinely inspired Record, that we so freely intersperse both quotations and citations of the Scriptures upon which to build."

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Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence January 1 1908 (reprint) p.4110 "Views From the Watch Tower"

"We are not prophesying; we are merely giving our surmises, the Scriptural basis for which is already in the hands of our readers in the six volumes of SCRIPTURE STUDIES. We do not even aver that there is no mistake in our interpretation of prophesy and our calculations of chronology. We have merely laid these before you, leaving it for each to exercise his own faith or doubt in respect to them."

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Watchtower April 1, 1920, pp100, 101

"We would not refuse to treat one as a brother because he did not believe the Society is the Lord's channel. If others see it in a different way, that is their privilege. There should be full liberty of conscience."

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Watchtower August 15, 1950 p. 263 Name and Purpose of The Watchtower

"?The Watchtower? invites careful and critical examination of its contents in the light of the Scriptures."

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Watchtower May 15, 1957 pp.313-315 Appreciating Basic Christian Publications

"?Their zeal for knowledge may even prompt them to dig back into things that were published long before they came into the truth, expanding and deepening their understanding, and ever growing in Christian maturity... Do you dig out older publications to expand and deepen your knowledge on subjects about which questions arise? Have you really studied these earlier publications?... How is your background of knowledge? ... Never think: "Oh, I know most of that." For you will find, indeed, that you do not and that you will be strengthened by your additional study...once you have completed your study of them you can then look to even older publications... Only by studying earlier publications and digging back through previous issues of The Watchtower kept in the library at your local Kingdom Hall. There is much in the way of spiritual riches and aids toward mature knowledge in these earlier publications, and their study is most certainly worth your time."

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Watchtower November 15, 1963 p.688 Execution of Divine Judgment upon False Religion

"3 Can there be false religion? It is not a form of religious persecution for anyone to say and to show that another religion is false. It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false, thus allowing persons to see the difference between false religion and true religion."

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Watchtower March 1, 1965 p.151 Basis for Reliance on Prophecy

"The best method of proof is to put a prophecy to the test of time and circumstances. The Bible invites such a test."

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Watchtower March 1, 1966 p.132 Should Falsehood and Corruption Be Exposed?

"Therefore, how will you respond when pointed statements are made about false religious teachings and corrupt practices? Will you immediately condemn the person or organization making the exposé? Do you feel it is all right to teach lies and misrepresent God's Word, but wrong to expose the error? Contrary to what some may think, it is not unkind and unloving to lay bare falsehood and corruption."

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The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life 1968 p.13 Why It Is Wise to Examine Your Religion

"4 However, you have no doubt heard people say: "It doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you lead a clean moral life and deal kindly with your neighbors." But is that all there is to worshiping God in an acceptable way? These things are necessary, but God requires more. Doctrines are also involved. The Bible informs us that "the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth." (John 4:23) If our worship is to be acceptable to God, it must be firmly rooted in God's Word of truth. Jesus reproved those persons who claimed to serve God but who relied heavily on the traditions of men in preference to God's Word. He applied to them God's own words from Isaiah 29:13, saying: "It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines." (Matthew 15:9) Since we do not want our worship to be in vain, it is important for each one of us to examine his religion.

5 We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God's Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination. It should be the sincere desire of every one of us to learn what God's will is for us, and then to do it.-John 8:32."

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Awake! October 22, 1973 p. 6 Examine the Evidence

"Reasonable persons agree that the only fair method is to examine the evidence on both sides, both for and against a disputed theory. That is how one arrives at the truth."

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Is This Life All There Is? (1974) p.46 What Is This Thing Called "Soul"?

"?God, who is himself "the God of truth" and who hates lies, will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach falsehood. (Psalm 31:5; Proverbs 6:16-19; Revelation 21:8) And, really, would you want to be even associated with a religion that had not been honest with you?"

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Watchtower January 15, 1974 p.35 Can You Be True to God, Yet Hide the Facts?

"When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it. But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning?

If you are among those seeking to be faithful to God, the issues these questions raise are vital for you today."

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Awake! November 22, 1984 p.3-4 An Open or a Closed Mind?Which Do You Have?

"What Is an Open Mind?
An open mind is free from the fetters of prejudice, which by one dictionary is defined as follows: "A judgment or opinion, favorable or unfavorable, formed beforehand or without due examination; a mental decision based on other grounds than reason or justice; especially, a premature or adversely biased opinion."

A necessary part of life is that we make decisions and reach judgments. But decisions made "without due examination" or judgments reached "on other grounds than reason or justice" are evidences of a closed mind.

Having an open mind, on the other hand, means to be receptive to new information and ideas. It means being willing to examine and to evaluate information without a biased attitude. By retaining what is worthwhile and rejecting what is worthless, we can reach definite conclusions on a solid basis and still leave our minds open to further revision should additional information become available at a future time. He who feels he has learned it all can be sure that this attitude will prevent him from ever learning more.

Why People Have Closed Minds
A closed mind may indicate lack of knowledge. We may know so little about a subject, or have information so distorted or incomplete, that the facts necessary to reach proper conclusions are missing."

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Awake! 1984 November 22 pp.8-10 An Open Mind Wins God's Approval

"An Open Mind Wins God's Approval
THE importance of having an open mind so as to win God's approval is shown in the words recorded at Ephesians 5:10, 17. There we read: "Keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord. On this account cease becoming unreasonable, but go on perceiving what the will of Jehovah is."

But is it not a fact that many people have closed minds when it comes to religion? Some even reject the idea of a Supreme Being and are unwilling to listen to the evidence of his existence presented by believers. For them religion is a closed subject.

Even some religious people have closed minds. They are interested only in "their" religion, showing no willingness to as much as listen to the views of others. And even though they may not have chosen their religion but simply have inherited it from their parents, still they feel that their religion must be right. But not every inheritance is necessarily good. A quick temper, a selfish attitude or a deceitful spirit can also be parental hand-me-downs, but they are definitely undesirable.

What makes a religion right is its total adherence to God's Word. Whether our religion meets this criterion or not can only be determined by open-mindedly comparing it with the Bible. Certainly such an important matter as our worship of God should not be determined for us by the coincidence of where we were born. After all, the child born to Catholic parents has had no more control over this fact than the child born to Muslim parents controls that.

Avoid Religious Prejudice
When people are approached with a religious message, they may react in one of several ways. Some will say: "Absolute truth is impossible to find"; "all religions are only out for your money"; "science has disproved religion"; "religion is just a crutch for weak people." These views, and others like them, tend to close the mind and cut off investigation before it has begun. It is prejudice at work.

Why, some people have even been known to doubt the truthfulness of a message simply on the basis of where the message bearer came from. Take, for example, an event from the first century C.E. John 1:45, 46 tells us: "Philip found Nathanael and said to him: 'We have found the one of whom Moses, in the Law, and the Prophets wrote, Jesus, the son of Joseph, from Nazareth.' But Nathanael said to him: 'Can anything good come out of Nazareth?' Philip said to him: 'Come and see.'" Philip was clearly admonishing Nathanael to keep an open mind.

Similar things happen today. When missionaries of Jehovah's Witnesses preach in foreign countries, they may experience rejection, even though their message is based on the Bible, simply because of their nationality. Following the example of Nathanael of old, some people may ask: "Can anything good come out of America?"

Others may tend to reject a message because it is presented in a simple way by a person of simple background. But is this wise? About members of the early Christian congregation, we read: "When the Council [Jewish Sanhedrin] saw the boldness of Peter and John, and could see that they were obviously uneducated non-professionals, they were amazed and realized what being with Jesus had done for them!"?Acts 4:13, The Living Bible.

Yes, "uneducated non-professionals" can do amazing things when trained in the sayings of God. So do not allow their lack of formal theological training or professionalism to close your mind; leave it open to investigate the message they bring.

How to Find Religious Truth
An open mind is willing to do what 1 John 4:1 recommends. It says: "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world." But in view of the thousands of different religious groups and sects now in existence, is it possible to test what is true? Yes, not only possible but also not nearly as difficult as you might think. For example:

Some religions teach that in time our literal earth will be burned up. They may quote 2 Peter 3:7 in support: "But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men."

But does this text really say that the literal earth will be burned up? Actually, it only speaks of the "destruction of the ungodly men." In the preceding verses, 2Pe 3:5 and 6, it likens this to the time of Noah's flood when "the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water."

Now what actually perished in the Flood? Genesis 7:23 answers: "Thus he wiped out every existing thing that was on the surface of the ground, from man to beast, . . . and they were wiped off the earth." Logically, when wicked people were "wiped off the earth," the literal earth must have remained standing.

This is in harmony with Ecclesiastes 1:4, which informs us that "a generation is going, and a generation is coming; but the earth is standing even to time indefinite." Psalm 104:5 is even more emphatic: "He has founded the earth upon its established places; it will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever."

After comparing these scriptures, an open mind will conclude that any religion teaching the literal destruction of the earth is teaching an untruth. Could it then be the true religion, representing Jehovah God, the God of truth? Or what if it teaches other doctrines equally false? By the process of elimination, we can weed out false religions quickly.

"Be Sound in Mind"
The apostle Peter's admonition "be sound in mind" includes, of necessity, having an open mind, for only an open mind can reach sound conclusions and make sound judgments. Some of the inhabitants of Beroea had such an open mind, because of them we read that "they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so."?1 Peter 4:7; Acts 17:11.

An open mind, free of prejudice, will enable us to go on "carefully examining the Scriptures daily" and then to act upon what we learn. This is in harmony with the Bible counsel to "become doers of the word, and not hearers only." The Beroeans were more than just hearers, because Acts 17:12 informs us that "many of them became believers."?James 1:22; see also Matthew 7:21.

Yes, having an open mind will pay in many ways. Using it to help us find the true religion will enrich our present life, improve our spiritual health and assist us in solving life's problems. But, most importantly, it will also help us win God's approval, thus putting us in the way of receiving everlasting life in his new system.?See Mark 10:29, 30."

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Nocturne

Welcome to JWD kibi. Congratulations on finding this site, and starting to research about the organization. It's great that you didn't have to spend too much time stuck inside the borg.

He refuses to believe that the UN involvement is even true. The proof I have shown him he says could be fabricated. It's all a big conspiracy by Satan to turn us all from the WTS.
It is so frustrating to see such paranoia and have him justify everything the organization does. He says the stories I read on the internet are a fabrication designed by apostates and satan.

I had my own experience trying to present the proof of the wts' involvement to the UN a few days ago. They pretty much said the exact same thing your husband has...it was quite frightening for me to see how much JWs are brainwashed for the first time looking on the outside. But don't be discouraged, I'm sure you'll be able to get through to him despite the amount of indoctrination he has gone through in his life.

Good luck,

Nocturne

Winston Smith :>D

Hi Kibi, and welcome.

Glad to hear that you have Awakened to the truth about the WTS.

I DA'd myself last year Nov/Dec, best thing that I ever did for myself since being a JW for 15+ years.

Good luck on escaping with your hubby. Some here are able to esacpe with their spouses.

Others, like myself, are finding it difficult to get out with our spouses.

Best wishes,

Paul [Winston.]

franklin J

Hi Kibi,

welcome to the forum

Frank

DevonMcBride

Hello and welcome Kibi.

Devon

cruzanheart

Welcome to the forum!

Nina

Nathan Natas

He refuses to believe that the UN involvement is even true. The proof I have shown him he says could be fabricated.

If the Watchtower involvement with the UN is a fabrication, WHY did the WTB&TS send a letter out explaining that they were involved with the UN for ten years, but only so they could get a UN library card?

If your husband wanted to, he could call Bethel and ask them directly. Patterson, NY number: (845) 306-1000; phone number in Brooklyn is (718) 560-5000 or (718) 625-3600; J. R. Brown's telephone: (718) 560-5600. P hone calls are recorded.

The fact that the WTB&TS was involved with the UN for ten years is indisputable.

Then again, there are people who insist that the earth is flat.

Double Edge

My husband argues that they are the closest to the only true religion.

How would he know, if he was raised as a JW and never have investigated anything else. That's like eating penny candy all of your life thinking it's the best thing in the world, not realizing that Belgin chocolate exists (so to speak).

BTW, Welcome. !!!!

Hi, I'm Kibi!

lollydawdle

cyber-sista

Nathan Natas

Nocturne

Winston Smith :>D

franklin J

DevonMcBride

cruzanheart

Nathan Natas

Double Edge

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