When a Witness claim the uniqueness of Bible and its accurate prophecies!

by abiather 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  OrphanCrow

  When, exactly, was it written?

  The Google search function is quite marvelous...

  http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/sb.htm
  

  13th century CE as a date for Srimad Bhagavatam was accepted by scholars until the half of 20th century. Nevertheless, the work Tahqiq-i-Hind by Alberuni, a Muslim who made a study of the India in the 10th century CE, mentions Bhagavata Purana.

  
  Nowadays the date 9th century CE predominates. The critics claim that the Bhagavatam mentions Hunas and thus it had to be written after their invasion to India in 5th century CE. Nevertheless, the Hunas are mentioned also in older texts such as Lalitavistara, a Buddhist work dated to 3rd century CE, and Mahabharata, a recognized archaic work. These evidences indicate that this race was known before the invasion and its mention in the Bhagavatam doesn't suggest any occupation.

  
  Others argue that Bhagavatam was influenced by the philosopher Sankara (commonly accepted: 8th century CE) because of similarity of ideas and of the language. But Gaudapada, teacher of Govinda who was teacher of Sankara, mentions the Bhagavatam in his Uttaragita-bhasya and in his commentary on Sankhya-karika makes reference to other two verses.
• 

  wizzstick

  Excellent...thanks OrphanCrow.

  13th century CE as a date for Srimad Bhagavatam was accepted by scholars until the half of 20th century. Nevertheless, the work Tahqiq-i-Hind by Alberuni, a Muslim who made a study of the India in the 10th century CE, mentions Bhagavata Purana.

  
  Nowadays the date 9th century CE predominates. The critics claim that the Bhagavatam mentions Hunas and thus it had to be written after their invasion to India in 5th century CE. Nevertheless, the Hunas are mentioned also in older texts such as Lalitavistara, a Buddhist work dated to 3rd century CE, and Mahabharata, a recognized archaic work. These evidences indicate that this race was known before the invasion and its mention in the Bhagavatam doesn't suggest any occupation.

  
  Others argue that Bhagavatam was influenced by the philosopher Sankara (commonly accepted: 8th century CE) because of similarity of ideas and of the language. But Gaudapada, teacher of Govinda who was teacher of Sankara, mentions the Bhagavatam in his Uttaragita-bhasya and in his commentary on Sankhya-karika makes reference to other two verses.

  So Abiather, when you claim that it was written before the Bible....it probably wasn't.

  
  Wow - what amazing prophetic insight. And one load of old toot was written before another load of old toot.
• 

  steve2

  Never before in human history have so many lived in peace yet lived also in fearful anticipation of the peacefulness of their everyday lives being at risk.

  Michael Moore attributed this fearfulness to the various media whose prime purpose is to keep people afraid - well out of proportion to what is actually happening in their lives.

  None of this minimizes the fear, pain and struggle that characterizes the lives of so many people. But it points to the maddening ease with which relatively well off and peace-enjoying people living in dread that "This Is It".

  Fact is,  so many who have ever lived on earth  have already gone through their Great Tribulations and Armaggedons. Imagine living during the times of the Crusades and witnessing your country ravaged by religious zealots and seeing your community face having their throats cut if they did not recant or living and dying during the 13th Century during the apocalyptic decades of the Black Death.The sacking of Syria and surrounding environs is not new - although the weaponry packs a bigger, deadlier punch. And media saturates the world with the sacking.

  It is narcissistically simple-minded to posit this as the worst time in human history - it is that conceit which cheapens the horrific sufferings of people over the millenia.
• 

  Phizzy

  The Bible has very, very little that is unique in its content.

  I was amazed when I first read many of Leolaia's Topics and Posts on this very matter, nearly everything is plagiarised from elsewhere.

  We have a number of Threads on here challenging Bible believers to provide us with just ONE Bible prophecy that stands up to scrutiny.

  No one has yet succeeded.
• 

  abiather

  Viviane,

  That was a reply to cofty's claim that "we live in the most peaceful time in all of human history," hence this prophecy is no-sense.
• 

  abiather

  Even if it is concluded that Srimad Bhagavatam was written later than Bible, it does not mean that it did not exist before in some form. It is Krishna in the form of sound, and thus it is as old as Krishna. When did historical Krishna live—I leave it for your research (as this forum is not the right place for me to elaborate)

   When the actual words were penned downed and by whom – that does not matter. My point was the message, not the time in which it was written. Let it be before or after the Bible was written—yet as BLUESBROTHER says there are similarities between the Bible and Bagavatam.
• 

  Viviane

  That was a reply to cofty's claim that "we live in the most peaceful time in all of human history," hence this prophecy is no-sense.

  But Cofty didn't say that. He said that, by every measure, we live in the MOST peaceful time.

  Also, how is it a prophecy to predict that something would happen that had happened many times before and was still happening while he was alive? What special knowledge or foresight does that require?
• 

  abiather

  Vivane, you are right—things that happen repeatedly is not prediction.

   In the West the word prediction is often used. But in Bagavatam it is all about repeated elevation and entropy (hence it is not about prediction). It says history repeats itself identically in every Kalpa (cycle of a few thousand years):

   First half of the Kalpa (is like Day) passes through stages such as GOLDEN AGE (Satya Yuga) when people are quite divine in nature and SILVER AGE (Treta Yuga) when they are more or less divine in nature. Second half of the Kalpa (is like Night) passes through stages such as COPPER AGE (Dwapar Yuga) when people start becoming egoistic and IRON AGE (Kali Yuga) when people become too egoistic. In Kali Yuga even religions display intoxication towards their own identity (collective ego) and compete with each other for supremacy, forgetting their original role of reconnecting people with God. When irreligiousness reaches its climax, the Supreme Soul (whom even Krishna calls, the Supreme Father), God Shiva, makes His promised descent on to this earth (Gita 4:7), chooses a worthy person, names him Brahma (Great Mind) according to his character, through him, He teaches and trains the willing people for the Golden Age and re-establishes Heaven on earth. This short period is the most auspicious part of a Kalpa (because God Himself is the real Hero of this period and His training makes people like diamond in their integrity and purity) and is called DIAMOND AGE (quality-wise). Thus we have five Yugas which explains why the Silver Age is called Treta (which means third, in Sanskrit) Yuga. As the time passes by, entropy sets in—quality of people declines and Heavenly world gradually becomes Hell! And again God’s role begins, and the Time Cycle repeats. Thus human history is compared to a Kalpa tree, because the tree is an apt symbol of growth and decay followed by the intervention of a seed which ensures the sprouting and growing again! Thus humanity is like an inverted tree (Gita 15:1-2) and God is like “the Supreme Seed” of humanity (Gita 14:3, 4; 9:10) who ensures the sprouting each time the world decays!

   However, history of first half of the Kalpa is unlikely to be faithfully kept by the second half Kalpa residents whose inclination is not very much towards truth. Another problem is that each Kalpa ends with a nuclear catastrophe which makes things complicated and difficult for the future researchers who want to know the details of the previous Kalpa! Situation is almost like trying to discern the contents of a book that has now been reduced to ashes by fire! Yet there are indirect proof for the cycle of elevation and entropy. November 2014 issue of Geophysical Journal International had even this headline: “Earth's Magnetic Field Could Flip Within A Human Lifetime.” In other words, what they indirectly say is that earth has a LINEAR history of Billions of years whereas its magnetic field has a CYCLIC history of a few thousand years which requires a very large supply of energy to keep it going [which obviously points to a Supreme Soul, or “the Ruler of the universe”—Gita 10:3]

   If the earth’s magnetic field is weakening 10 times faster than scientists originally thought, it means cyclic history of the present magnetic field is nearing its end! No wonder Bulletin of Atomic Scientists moved its iconic Doomsday Clock up 2 minutes on 23.01.2015 which means we are just three minutes closer to midnight in comparison to 17 minutes to midnight in 1991. Experts substantiate this, pointing to the undeniable threat to the continued existence of humanity arising from insufficient action by the Governments on issues such as nuclear arms, unchecked climate change… etc.  (http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/23/us/feat-doomsday-clock-three-minutes-midnight/index.html). Also, the way terrorism flourishes in spite of all-out fighting against it by nearly all Governments of the world shows we are heading for a global catastrophe!  Interestingly, the Vishnu Purana (4:24) rightly predicted some more characteristics for our time: “Social status depends not upon your accomplishments, but in the ownership of property; wealth is now the source of virtue; passion and luxury are the sole bonds between spouses; falsity and lying are the conditions of success in life; sexuality is the sole source of human enjoyment; religion, a superficial and empty ritual, is confused with spirituality.” The same is elaborated in Shrimad Bhagavatam as shown in the post and also in Bible, Quran … etc.

  Yet, as usual this seeming dead-end is actually going to be the beginning of another Age! Change-over from a catastrophic end of the Iron Age to a Golden Age will take place orderly under the supervision of the Supreme Soul, God Shiva whose very name means THE SUPREME WORLD BENEFACTOR. He takes all souls (not the bodily beings, but their souls) to Paramdham, the soul world, and recreates Heaven on earth into which souls will descend number-wise (merit-wise), in a systematic process by which all souls would have reached here on earth towards the end of next Kali Yuga—each one according to his merit and according to his time. In fact, the only role God plays is this: Recreating the Heaven on earth whenever humans transform it into a Hell. (Gita 4:7) Hence He is aptly symbolized in Lingam, made of parts of two Sanskrit words lin + gam indicative of Dissolution (laya) and Recreation (agaman) respectively (Gita 7:6; 10:34), which is a symbol that is found all over the world, even in (Etruscan Museum) Vatican (which is originally a Sanskrit word vatica, meaning religious center). Photos from multiple locations are displayed in http://www.stephen-knapp.com/art_photo_fourteen.htm. Thus Shiva Linga is a symbol of cyclic history in nutshell.

   Collective memory!

   If there was a Golden Age that once existed here on earth, then it would not easily be forgotten. No wonder, virtually all cultures and religions of the world point to a Golden Age and to a Great Fall that mankind experienced from it. The most prominent of them all is the Bible which is made of 66 small books. Its first book (Genesis) speaks of how the Paradise on earth was lost (when humans began to think in terms of me and mine), and its last book (Revelation) shows how it will be restored on earth (when people revert to purity through oneness with God’s qualities)!

   Existence of Deism

  There were many shrewd people (in the history of the world) who firmly believed in the existence of a loving God, yet declared He has not started any religion on earth! These people are called Deists (who are different from Theists who are mostly associated with religions). Some of the famous Deists are: Albert Einstein, Alfred M. Mayer, Antony Flew, Alexander Pope,   Adam Smith, Ahmad Kasravi, Benjamin Franklin,  Brett Gurewitz,  Carl Friedrich Gauss,  Charles Lyell,  Charles Sanders Peirce,  Colin Maclaurin,  Dmitri Mendeleev,  Ethan Allen, Edward Herbert, 1st Baron Herbert of Cherbury,  Elihu Palmer,  Émilie du Châtelet,   Ernest Rutherford,  Frederick the Great,  Friedrich Schiller,  Gottfried Leibniz,  Gotthold Ephraim Lessing,  George Washington, Harish-Chandra,  Harmony Korine,  Henrik Wergeland,  Hermann Weyl,  Humphry Davy James Heckman,  James Hutton,  James Madison,  James Watt, Jean Baptiste Lamarck, Jean le Rond D’Alembert, John Muir, John Toland,  John Locke,  José Rizal,  Jules Verne,  Ludwig Boltzmann, Luis Walter Alvarez,  Lysander Spooner, Mark Twain,  Martin Gardner, Matthew Tindal, Max Born, Max Planck,  Maximilien Robespierre,  Mikhail Lomonosov,  Moses Mendelssohn,  Napoleon Bonaparte,  Neil Armstrong,  Nick Cave,  Paul Davies, Robert Hooke, Simon Newcomb,  Thomas Alva Edison, Thomas Jefferson,  Thomas Paine,  Victor Hugo,  Voltaire,  Walter Kohn, Wernher von Braun,  William Lloyd Garrison,  William Hogarth,  Wolfgang Pauli …. etc. (http://www.deism.com/einstein.htm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deists). The resounding thinking of these great people passes the stage of drama (as though a King’s pilot vehicles) before God makes His promised descent on earth, disowning all the religions. Thus existence of these well-informed great people is an indirect proof to what God Himself says in Bhagavatam: ‘His role begins only in the fag end of Kali Yuga, (not before that).

   
• 

  Viviane

  But in Bagavatam it is all about repeated elevation and entropy (hence it is not about prediction). It says history repeats itself identically in every Kalpa (cycle of a few thousand years):

  Well, we already know that to be false. If the central premise is false, why should anyone bother to give any credence to the rest?
• 

  abiather

  Viviane, You say we know “elevation and entropy” to be false!

  Entropy is a fact because people in general do not learn from their mistakes, but only repeat them. We know spending more than our income is a bad habit—yet which Government does not suffer from debt. Do you have any idea about US Federal debt? Trillions and Trillions. It fought all the Middle East wars on borrowed money. Yet did it make that part of the world a safer place? Is the situation worse than before? Only in last year how many journalists were beheaded there? The very fact that we humans have not learned to live in peace with each other is the proof that entropy is the norm of the day!

  I know a marriage counselor who helped over 200 couple to reunite from their divorced status. She is a retired Judge and Human Rights activist (not a psychologist). The technique she used in all of them was very simple: “Go to your ex-spouse and say ‘let us start again, as if nothing has happened between us.’” If these magical 11 words worked with that many divorcees, it can definitely work with Israel and Palestine, or with any others who are in conflicted relationships. What is needed is the will to come out of the self-made prison of past!

  Yet humans in general are not doing such an easy thing, instead resort to age-old wasteful idea that war-preparedness is better security than a friendly neighbor. Why? We are evolving physically, but mind is not evolving!