by I_am_an_idiot 23 Replies latest jw friends
We will not be living forever on a paradise earth, whilst some people would be living in heaven. NO. We, as the faithful sheep of the King of Kings and God in the flesh will be living with Him, ALL of His faithful, in the new Jerusalem which will orbit the earth during the thousand year reign of christ Jesus. Rev. 21:2
That is, those of us who are part of the Bride which will be raptured (Rev. 3:10), and those among the tribulation saints who lose their lives for their witness.
Hi IAAI :) Welcome. Finding out what a religious sect believes is a whole lot different than joining one...and in this case, joining the JWs is like Hotel California. You can check out but you cannot leave. They own you...they separate you from all your nonJW family and nonJW friends, they control your speech, your whereabouts, your preaching or not preaching, your answering questions or not answering questions, your very thought processes become theirs. If you dont adhere to ALL of their petty rules and pharisaic religious tenets, they punish you...publically. If you think any of this sounds UNChristian...you would be correct. The JWs believe that they and they alone are Christians. That they and they alone have Gods ear when praying. That they and they alone are qualified to preach the "good news" that Jesus said to declare. They believe that they and they alone will survive Armageddon. They believe that they alone will be in paradise...and they pray for the destruction of all other people...all 6 billion of them including you. The JWs will not allow you to read or research ANYTHING that is against their beliefs. They will not allow you to ASSOCIATE or SPEAK TO anyone who used to be a JW. They will excommunicate you if you do, and they will disown you...and in the case of many, take away your family and every JW you have ever gotten to know.
Does this sound like something you want to be forever tethered to? Millions of us...left. Do the research but be VERY careful what you agree to. They are master manipulators. If you have ANY questions...ask them on this board. Not asking would be taking the Used Car Salesman's word on it that you are buying a "real cherry of a car".
Hello IAAI. I'm new here too (so I apologize to everyone if I break any rules of etiquette). I hope you are still around to read this post...
Fredhall says, "There will be people living forever on earth. And there will be some living in heaven." This raises a couple interesting questions - why are there two groups, and who goes where?
If you ask a Jehovah's Witness which group of persons will live forever on the earth, undoubtedly they will tell you it is the "great crowd" of "other sheep". So what do the scriptures have to say about this earthbound group of persons?
Actually, the scriptures say absolutely nothing about this group, because this group does not exist. The only place you will find reference to the "great crowd of other sheep" is in Watch Tower literature. This phrase appears nowhere in the Holy Scriptures. The Watch Tower Society has forced a connection between two distinct groups.
The reference to "other sheep" comes from John 10:16, where Jesus is reported as saying, "I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd."
The reference to the "great crowd" comes from Revelation 7:9: "After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands."
The context of both these scriptures reveals much as to the identity and location of each group. First, consider the "other sheep" of John 10:16. Context shows clearly that Jesus is here speaking to the Jews (John 9:18; 9:40; 10:19).
It makes sense, then, that the "other sheep" would be persons other than the Jews. They would be persons from a different sheep pen, as it were.
Matthew 10:5,6 sheds additional light on this:
"These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel."
Jesus earthly ministry was directed at the "lost sheep" - the Jews. However, there would come a time when "other sheep" - Gentile nations - would be called too. The "lost sheep of Israel", and the "other sheep" of the Gentile nations would become one flock, with one shepherd. Paul testifies to this fact at Ephesians 2:11-14:
"Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)--remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,"
Now consider the "great crowd". According to Revelation 7:9, the "great crowd" stands before the throne of God, and in front of the Lamb. Does this sound like the great crowd is on earth? According to Revelation 1:4, the "seven Spirits" are also "before the throne", as are the seven blazing lamps (Rev 4:5), the four living creatures (Rev 4:6), the twenty-four elders (Rev 4:10), the angels (Rev 7:11), the golden altar (Rev 8:3), the 144,000 (rev 14:3). In each of these cases, according to the Watch Tower Society, "before the throne" means heaven - except for the great crowd in which case "before the throne" means on earth - go figure!
John is explicit that he is receiving a vision of heaven: "At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it." (Rev 4:1)
The great crowd of Revelation is in the same location as the 144,000 (whom the Watch Tower Society admits is a "heavenly class"). The great crowd is "before the throne of God, and they serve him day and night in his temple" (Rev 7:15).
Yes, the concept of living forever on earth is appealing. But then again, so is living forever in heaven. Honestly, I don't care where I am as long as I am with my Lord and Savior. I freely admit that I don't know the ultimate destiny of humankind. Revelation 21:1 says that there will be a new heaven and new earth, that the first heaven and first earth will pass away. This occurs after the millennial reign of Christ. Perhaps this is the fulfillment of Psalms 37. But I also know that the Christian hope as presented in the New Testament is a heavenly hope (John 12:26; John 14:2,3; 2 Cor 5:8; Phil 1:21-23). The Watch Tower Society knows this to be true, which is why they must resort to claiming the Bible was not written for people like you and I. Rather, they claim, the Bible was written only for the 144,000 "anointed" Jehovah's Witnesses.
I urge you to take FredHall's advice: "Just keep reading your Bible daily, attend Christian meetings, and read bible publications. By doing these, Jehovah will educate you spiritually." He is most assuredly correct. But please note, Jehovah's Witness meetings are not Christian meetings, nor are Watch Tower publications Bible publications. And most importantly, the "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures" is not a Bible.
One last thing, the fact that you raised this question in a public forum proves you are not an idiot. Quite the opposite actually. I think you should change your handle.
Trevor Scott.
Well like Ray Franz brings out at the end of his book 'Crisis of Consiounce' the early Christians had no official church or kingdom hall for that matter where they meet, they were free to exchange ideas, not tied down to the views of a Govening elite, a buch of stuffy old men stuffing their narrow views down everyones throat. How refreshing it is to have the internet to exchange ideas. A world of ideas instead of a black box organization that kills all enthusiasim for open debate and exchange.
