rem. I respect you for who you are and do not wish to be interpreted as bashing you personally. I do find this subject very interesting, so can we agree that we already disagree, but still say our peace? Here we go...
Dark Uncle,
::The skeptics have to bash this to protect their own world view. They do not want to believe that this is a possibility.
Nope, it's just reality. I actually think it would be great and wonderful if the claims were true. I just don't *need* them to be true and I have done the research to find that there is no real evidence of psychic powers. Ironically it seems that the believers are the real closed-minded ones - they will never really do the research and test their worldview because to do so and find out that it needs changing would be too painful.
Sorry about your anti-intellectual anti-science bias. Fortunatelly there are people out there unlike you so that we can enjoy the modern convieniences of science... such as lower infant mortality, cured diseases, and instant communications including this discussion board. I'm not sure what terrible thing science and critical thinking has done to you to deserve such derision.
rem
I have posted your last reply in its entirety so as to avoid context errors, and to make fewer windows open on my desktop.
::The skeptics have to bash this to protect their own world view. They do not want to believe that this is a possibility
This is something I wrote. Looking back I think it is sloppy, as starry eyed new agers-of which I am oft accused of being-can be guilty of the same mindset.
Nope, it's just reality
Surely you're not suggesting that you know the length and width and depth of physical reality.
I actually think it would be great and wonderful if the claims were true. I just don't *need* them to be true and I have done the research to find that there is no real evidence of psychic powers
There's that wonderful word: True. I think it's related to "truth" but I coud be wrong. Do you *need* them to be "not-true"? You mention research. What did that entail? Were you counting subatomic particles in a bubble chamber? Were you observing test subject trying to manipulate chance with "their minds"? In all fairness, I have not done those experiments either-but it would be fun. I'd also state that lack of evidence is not evidence in itself.
Ironically it seems that the believers are the real closed-minded ones - they will never really do the research and test their worldview because to do so and find out that it needs changing would be too painful.
I very much AGREE with you on this point. Believers are such interesting creatures. I "believe" that believers do much damage to any kind of open minded dialoge and experimentation protocol. Changing one's beliefs IS painful, but if we are brave enough to go through with it, what we suffer is worth the goal.
Sorry about your anti-intellectual anti-science bias
Ouch. That actually stung for a bit. I choose not to take umbrage. I have loved science since a very small child. I wanted to be a palaeontologist, I could even say the word (I obviously can't spell it). In middle school and high school I was aiming towards chemistry. I knew that would be a fight what with being JW and all (not as much of a fight as the gay thing though). I was a lab assistant my seinor year, until a lab mishap. I then corrected tests and papers for the rest of the year. I attended one year of colledge, again focusing on chemistry. My grades sucked, my heart wasn't in it. For a number of reasons I quit school and worked full time for the next decade. Anti-science indeed.
Fortunatelly there are people out there unlike you so that we can enjoy the modern convieniences of science... such as lower infant mortality, cured diseases, and instant communications including this discussion board.
Yes, thank Jehovah, as he and I like nothing more than killing babies, giving people piles, and keeping them illiterate and stupid.
I'm not sure what terrible thing science and critical thinking has done to you to deserve such derision
Science and Critical thinking are intangible things; they have not wronged me. The mentality that is prevalent among scientists saddens me, they are no longer have an explorer's heart. They have sold the soul of science to politician's and corporations. True our lives are good, but I think they could have more quality.
I encountered this quote on an older thread, I think it bears relevance here:
In a similar vein the scientician does not merely say, "The emperic proof is the best method of gaining facts in the sense realm," but goes on to say, "Only those propositions that can be empirically verified are true." Unfortunately, that proposition itself cannot be empirically verified. There is no empirical proof that empirical proof alone is real. Thus, as Smith says, "The contention that there are no truths save those of science is not itself a scientific truth, and thus in affirming it scientism contradicts itself."
Respond away. The way I see it, neither of us is right or wrong. In the grander scheme of things our being right or wrong does not truly matter.
Peace.