yeru-- I can't remember any part of jesus ministry that jesus attempted to over throw the roman authority . He attempted to restore pure worship in Israel by condemning the religious leaders who were the authority in jerusalem . He was the king of the jews but did not even want to be crowned king for his kingdom was no part of the world . The argument that jesus was some kind of political threat just doesn't add up from the 4 gospel accounts .
'Jews Killed Jesus' sign causing controversy
by DevonMcBride 26 Replies latest jw friends
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czarofmischief
Who KILLED Jesus isn't the point of the Passion. The point of the act, and of the movie, is that it was Jesus' CHOICE to undergo it. And why did he choose to undergo it? Because he loved us. so nobody is to BLAME for Jesus death, at least nobody alive today, and Jesus even forgave the ones nailing him to the cross.
So, instead of seeking to blame people, or as the Jewish community seems to be terrified of it, seeking to AVOID blame, we need to realize that Jesus, with his power, could have walked away from the cross at any moment. Could have abandoned us to the tender mercies of the Roman, Chinese, and Aztec empires for all time, with their Nimrod like human over human abuses of power. Could have left us, spinning alone in the darkness of the universe until our ticket to Hell got punched.
But he didn't. He chose the hard way. The best way. God's way. And so should we.
CZAR
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Mary
Not true, the Legion that was in Judea at that time was the Italica, and was made of Italians and Roman citizens. Therefore, it was the Italians that killed Jesus. Some Jews may have had a hand in handing Jesus over, but that's not all or even most Jews.
Well said! I used to believe that ALL the Jews were responsible for Jesus' death, but the more history I read, I realize that that just wasn't the case. Jesus most certainly pissed off the Scribes and Pharisees and I believe that it was this small group of Jews that conspired with the Romans to get rid of him. However the scripture that depicts Pilate as "reluctant" to have Jesus killed and only did so when he "feared an uprising" at the behest of a Jewish mob, in all likelihood never happened. Pilate was a ruthless ruler and he wouldn't have hesitated to get rid of someone called the King of the Jews. In addition there's no historical evidence at all that Rome had a tradition of releasing a condemned criminal (to the Jews of all people) for Passover. Therefore, it's highly unlikely that the whole "mob" scene actually took place. -
Yerusalyim
Czar,
Very well put, you're a wise man. Yes, Jesus went to his death by choice (Mel shows Jesus embracing the cross)...Jesus could have left that scene at any time and choose not to.
Mary,
The Pilate issue is harder to determine. I think Mel could have done something to show what a cruel person Pilate was...perhaps showing him ordering the crucifixion of a hundred rebels and selling their families as slaves.
There may have trully been some reluctance on his part due to not wanting to exacerbate a religious quarrel and flame it into an uprising...Pilate was not on good terms with Sejanus by this time...and was fired within a few years. Yes, Pilate was trully a cruel man...though he may have been rehabilitated a bit because of the legends of his wife, and perhaps he himself, becoming Christian
On the other hand showing that reluctance on his part allows the "what is Truth" dialouge to occur, and is also there to prove that Jesus was trully not guilty before the religious court, the local civil authority (Herod) or the WORLD authority (Rome).
I do agree that Mel probably villianized the High Priest a bit too much...Yes, at that time they were Roman political appointees concerned with keeping their job...which could explain a lot of their behavior...not wanting to cause a disturbance at the festival because of the cruely of Pilate...needing to make the money they did from the temple square (selling of animals) in order to afford the bribe needed to keep their job, etc...Mel just didn't give the guy enough depth, and he does come off a hair cruel.
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avishai
Truthfully tho - don't jews believe that jesus wasn't even the messiah? what do they care then
Well, they care because of two thousand years of getting killed and getting the shit kicked out of them over this very issue.
Next, so God allowed Caiphas to speak for ALL Jews? Like he let Adam and Eve screw it up for all of us? I have a hard time believing that, even if it does fit his M.O.
What many people fail to realize is that for at least 200 years, Christians were viewed as a sect of, what? JUDAISM. And the vast majority of early x-tians were of jewish origin. God, people are so f-ing stupid sometimes, even on this site anti-semitism regularly rears it's ugly head. I'm only 34 and with a name like Samuel Abishai Davidoff, I've been hassled as a "Goddamn Christ Killer." You really can't blame a culture who has been chased out of every country, had the ass kicked out of them, been raped and killed, had everything stolen from them by various governments, crusades, and inquisitions. Figure it out.
Yeru, you rock.
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nilfun
Pastor apologizes for church sign saying Jews killed Jesus Pastor Maurice Gordon is so sorry that he said so on the marquee outside his Lovingway United Pentecostal Church on South Colorado Boulevard.
"I am deeply sorry for offending the Jewish people whom I love," the sign now says.
More at http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E53%257E1982568,00.html
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heathen
Man that guy is some kind of flake . Probly the first time he said something that made sense . The bible obviously shows the jewish religious leaders ,who were the only jewish authority at the time ,plotting to kill jesus . I don't care how many people pilate may have condemned , he did not accuse jesus of sedition he was a victim of circumstance . The only record we have of the events are in the bible and so far noone has offered any proof to the contrary.