I have a bone to pick with society...Re: MEN and KIDS

by flower 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • avishai

    Well, flower, I agree w/ some of your point's., I also agree with Rick Aust. I am a stay at home dad, and people look at me like an alien. I also am constantly questioned as to my abilities at parenting, i.e diaper changing, feeding, etc., even though I had to help raise two baby brothers after my Dad died, I worked with autistic and abused kids for over ten years, etc., etc., etc. I even get looked at funny when I say I love babies. Why? Because I'm a MAN! Who are the people giving me the funny looks? Women.

    If your a woman and want to hold someone you barely know's baby, it's totally cool, in this society. Man? It's automatically assumed your a perv.

    Avishai, of the teaching his 20 mo. old daughter to sit around, belch, watch sports and kick ass class.

  • Steve Lowry
    Steve Lowry

    "Talk about double standards. Men get extra credit for doing things that women do thousands of times without even thinking"

    Maybe we get a little extra credit on the admiration scale in this way cuz we DO have to think about doing a job that comes naturally to the women folk? We (guys) have been trained (and ingrained) NOT to be nurturing. We have been conditioned to be "tough" and protect while the women have been trained to be "soft" and accessible. And you know what? Its never gonna change, not really. It?s not so much social opinion that forms us IMO, but our evolution as a species that makes act the way we do. Oh sure some things will be modified as we go, but the core stuff isn?t gonna change much.

    Look, when men can grow a pair of tits and nurture a infant THEN the role recognition may be more a bit equal in the way you?re frustrated with currently. Until then, ya better just get used to it.

    Oh by the way, we men get a little tired of the double standard that WE have to contend with. For example, we try to be sensitive to how women want to be treated as equals in the work place and other social areas. But if we don?t open a door for a woman or allow her to be the first one out of an elevator then we get looked at like substandard neanderthals recently let out of a cage. In my line of work I have to use the elevator sometimes several times a day (I?m a service tech). And it gets almost comical how we (men) will fall all over ourselves trying to allow the woman in the elevator out the door first!

    Everybody?s got their crap they gotta deal with. Ya gotta laugh about it, I say.


  • Yerusalyim

    Perhaps it's tied into this concept that women are better parents too, so that when society sees a man doing the job he gets applauded. The down side to this is that men get custody of their kids in only 11% of the cases in a divorce. I've even heard a judge say, before the custody hearing began, that he thought kids should be with the mother...the dad had ZERO chance.

  • TD

    It's not fair, Flower. It really isn't.

    Taking care of the babies and older children is the responsibility of both parents. Women are not alone though. The double standards thing bites on both ends.

    Why, for example is anything even remotely dirty or dangerous that needs to be done automatically the man's responsibility?

    In my house.....

    When there is a scorpion scuttling accross the ceiling, who gets to kill it?

    When there are broken roofing tiles that need replacing, who gets to go two stories up the ladder and do it?

    When the main breaker shorted out, who got to pull the meter and replace it?

    When our daughter's cat was stuck 35 feet up in a tree, who got to go up and get it down?

    When the same damn Eucalyptus tree got so big it needed to be cut down, who go to do it?

    When a line transformer fell in the backyard during one of these violent Arizona thunderstorms, who had to physically restrain their spouse from running out in the wet grass in their bare feet to save one of the dogs?

    The answer to all those questions is one word: ME.

    Don't misunderstand. My wife is not stupid. She is very, very intelligent, much more so than I am. The point is she doesn't know how to mix fuel for a chain saw, hell, she doen't even know how to start one, let alone use it safely. She doesn't know how to rope a tree and tension it with a pick-up truck so it falls the right direction, she doesn't know what to look for to see if a tree root is cracking the foundation of a house, she doesn't have an inkling about how to pull an electrical meter and not get killed, she had no idea that an invisible metal film can form on the glass of a meter, she's not overly comfortable with heights, she doesn't know how to mix insecticide or handle volatile chemicals and on and on and on.

    I know these things because I've had to learn them. There was never any pressure for her to learn them because that is not the societal expectation for women. If she were to do any of them, there would be lots and lots of oohs and aahs and that's all they would talk about in her office for a week.

  • Mulan
    When I see a dad, I see a man who is not too proud to help his wife out.

    I feel the same way. I can't even imagine my husband taking the babies out without me, when our kids were little. He was very helpful at home, but I can't think of a time where he took them away so I could have time at home, when they were babies or toddlers.

    One of our sons, on the other hand, regularly took his baby, later a toddler, camping on the weekends, because his wife worked. He brought him along on a family camping trip when he was 2, when his wife couldn't take anymore vacation time.

  • maxwell

    avishai said,

    If your a woman and want to hold someone you barely know's baby, it's totally cool, in this society. Man? It's automatically assumed your a perv.

    That reminded me of something my wife told me. She worked in a daycare center for a short while. At one point one of her female coworkers left on maternity leave and they brought a male and a female in to work in her place for a while. They decided they were going to keep one of them permanently. Now I must admit, I know nothing about the guys work ethic except what my wife told me and she said he was a capable worker, but basically the parents weren't interested in having him stay. They preferred the woman. They wouldn't let the guy work in the infant room when he was there either.

    So yes I agree there's a perception that men can't handle children as well as women and so when you see a man with his kids, he may get unfair extra kudos. I might have even had some of those same perceptions myself. Whenever I encounter anyone with children, male or female, I try to give them their space, especially if they have the bouncy kind.

  • flower

    Good points made. I dont agree with prejudging a man who is good with children. Unfortunately in our culture, sick priests, and perverted people in the news have warped the view of men in society. Men can hardly be around children at all without being suspect let alone work with other peoples children on a regular basis. Which is sad because kids need a male and female influence in my opinion and there are a LOT of single mom homes out there without a father in the home. Those male teachers, coaches and big brothers are needed.

    TD, point taken. I guess it depends on the woman. Personally I have never been a sit around and let a man do it kinda woman. I have put up siding, dug out pine trees, trimmed hedges, dug trenches and other 'manly' things. I dont think that men are usually all that impressed that I can change a tire or throw a spiral. I think they find it threatening and if I do too many manly things I would be labled a dike or something. So why are women impressed when a man can change a diaper or fold laundry? If he is too good at taking care of kids is he labled as feminine or gay? I think thats the fear of a lot of guys.

  • Rick Aust
    Rick Aust

    Flower. Are you married? You sound like a Man-Hater. You certainly seem to have a chip on your shoulder.

    with Love. Rick

  • mouthy

    No Flower is NOT married!!! ( poking my nose in) Well my little Flower I tell you why I look at the Fathers in the store with the buggy & kids with admiration?because in MY day & age. the Fathers only went to work, came home turned on the radio/telly/or picked up the paper until I got the supper ready( besides the fact I went out cleaning houses WITH my two kids at one time)) I got up at night with the sick kids, I changed ,bathed, feed the kids, I had to look after them & keep them quite while the hockey,football.baseball was to be watched. So when I see a man ( I do see it more often lately) doing a MUMs "thing" I really am so moved...I can understand you though- What you need sweetie is a GOOD man in your life.... You know what I suggest????/ ( Pray about it ) lol ( No! no! flower dont you dare say that bad word ((((((((HUG)))))

  • flower

    LOL . I'm soo not a 'man hater'. I like men very much! What part of what I said above makes you think I hate men?

    Are you a JW? Anytime someone has a good point they have to be labled? I'm an apostate too ;)

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