What does perfect mean??

by Sargon 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • shotgun

    Perfect like all the horny angels!

    Perfect like Noah who got drunk and cursed his son for not covering his ass over.

    Perfect like Abraham who married his step sister because she was beautiful and would rather let other men take her into their harem than kill him.

    Perfect like Lot...........lets not even go there.


    Real perfection...the first time an infant smiles or the feeling you get watching a child eat their favorite treat.

  • Narkissos

    The notion of "perfection" attributed to Adam or Jesus is WT language, not Bible language. I can't see any Bible text stating that Adam or Jesus were "perfect".

    The closest Bible concept is "sin". It is not mentioned at all in the Adam story (legend). It is originally a ritual notion related to ceremonial uncleanness (for instance in the case of a woman cleansing from the ritual "uncleanness" or "sin" related to childbirth, or a cured leper reinstated in normal life -- no moral flaw involved...). However the word has also acquired a metaphorical, figurative moral meaning as we know.

    Occasionally, Jesus may be declared "sinless" (Hebrews 4:15). This needs not mean "moral perfection" in an absolute sense. The basic sense is the post mortem justification of a man whose death suggested he was a serious sinner (cf. Galatians 3). Interestingly, Hebrews also employs the vocabulary of "perfection" about Christ: not to say that he was perfect, but he had to be perfected as a result of his life, death and elevation (2:10; 5:9; 7:28). This is probably an allusion to the vocabulary of priestly consecration, which suits the context (another subject). Anyway, there is no idea of terrestrial Jesus as a "perfect man", different from the others in this respect. Even Paul's heavenly "Son of God" theology, which is related to the Redeemer character of Gnosticism, doesn't declare the man Jesus sinless: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and in relation with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh (Romans 8:3): the "Son of God" identifies with a "sinful man".

    Finally, when NT texts (e.g. Matthew 5:48) mention "perfection" (or "completeness") as a moral or spiritual goal, it is a goal that can and has to be achieved here and now, remarkably unrelated to any cosmic millenial restoration, or to any "ransom sacrifice"...

    My point here is that WT teaching is not to be confused with Bible teachings.

  • Carmel

    Perfection is a relative term, except for my relatives, They Jahoba Witlesses!

    Me, I'm close to perfection every day! Fact is I sleep with her!!!


  • freelife

    perfect=Freelife all worship me

  • one_ugly_time
    Perfect like all the horny angels!

    Another Meatloaf fan... Love it

    Perfection ?! I laugh hysterically...

    I often wonder about this. If Jesus was "perfect" does that mean that he always knew exactly the right thing to say or the right way to behave to have exactly the right influence upon everyone he came in contact with?

    I could debate endlessly on this topic. Just as there are no universal truths, there is no such thing as true perfection.


  • Sargon

    Wow!! I got a lot of interesting points on this one.

    O_U_T: Gotta agree I think I could argue endlessly too about true perfection and we'd get nowhere.

    Carmel: If perfection is relative maybe your relatives are perfect arsholes... I know some of my relatives say that about me...relatively speaking

    Shotgun: These people you mentioned are perfect examples of human imperfections. Is true perfection only to be found in the innocence of new born babes? Pity the God that threatens to destroy them at Armegeddon.

    Zen: Good points. Only if I think I'm defective would I strive for a pipe dream of perfection. I'm not defective but lifwe ain't perfect either.

    JH: If I were to comply 100% with what God said then I would lose my free will. I would in effect become a perfect parrot or robot. No thanks.

    I think the best point of all is by Narkissos. I thought that after 27 years away from Kingdom Halls I had managed to erase all traces of WTS theology. Obviously not. I guess the WTS is the perfect brainwasher.

  • Faraon


    JH: If I were to comply 100% with what God said then I would lose my free will. I would in effect become a perfect parrot or robot. No thanks.

    You just described why we aren't JWs followers anymore. We don't have a sheep's condition and didn't avoid independent thinking.

    On the other hand, my JW ex wife told me that I was perfect.

    A perfect idiot, that is.

  • FreePeace

    Interesting thread... Here is an article I wrote and teach in my seminars:

    Nobody's Perfect... or Are They?

    Here is a sound byte on the topic I presented at a seminar in New York City.

    Doug Kelley

  • Sargon

    Good article Doug thanks. Just thought I'd highlight part of it here:

    The old, tired out concept of perfection / imperfection is nothing more than an ancient human belief system designed to control and manipulate through guilt and shame. It is a control tactic. It restrains us from having a healthy, realistic, and positive view of ourselves, and therefore, of others. The old concept compels us subtly and inexorably toward inner unhappiness. Why? Because ?there always seems to be a reason to not feel good about ourselves.? We always seem to find some reason to justify our low feelings of self-worth. In turn, our own unhealthy self-concept lowers our view of other people

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