Supposedly Adam was perfect, Jesus was perfect; and witnesses hope to be perfect in the New System. But what does perfection mean. Is it a physical state or is it freedom from sin? Or is there some other meaning that's eluding me?
What does perfect mean??
For me, perfection in the traditional sense (as far as it relates to people) is both a relative and unattainable state.
However, in a more intangible sense ...
I am perfect because I am the best I can be at this moment in time. However, since I am (and always will be) a work-in-progress, the definition of perfect for me will be always changing.
Perfection in the religious sense, imo, is defined by each religion differently; therefore, very subjective and limiting. Each group would define it differently.
Was Jesus perfect? Well, if you are a believing Christian, you may feel he was. As an atheist (or at the very least an agnostic), I see Jesus as a gentle yet passionate man who had some very wise things to teach. In the long run, though, he was the same as us: perfect, and infinitely flawed at the same time - in other words: human.
Just my thoughts ...
It means that YOU do not experience anything YOU perceive as negative.
This creates a problem with the whole idea of "paradise". Things I find enjoyable, you might find annoying... and vis versa. A "paradise" can only support one view of "perfection".
Either everyone will get his own "paradise" designed just for him, or everyone will share one paradise but have to sacrifice individuality and become mindless drones.
Your answer reminds me of the Robin Williams movie "What Dreams may Come". In it everyone's individual heaven is defined by their own mind.
I can also accept Talesin's idea that a personal perfection is being the best you can be be, and probably actual perfection is unattainable; just don't mention that to Olympic judges.
I can't accept being complete as being perfect. When Adam was perfect he was incomplete, he lacked the knowledge of good and evil.
When Adam was perfect he was incomplete, he lacked the knowledge of good and evil
This means that the Adamic Paradise* operated on the "Drone" theory... effectively making the only person who enjoyed "paradise" the deity who created the system.
Everything was designed to suffer for the benefit and enjoyment of the deity. This type of system has a striking similarity to what dictators put into place.
* I love making up JW lingo
This means that the Adamic Paradise* operated on the "Drone" theory... effectively making the only person who enjoyed "paradise" the deity who created the system
I've always pictured an Adam without the knowledge of good and evil to be more like a well-trained Labrador Retreiver. He would know that to disobey his master is bad without knowing why. I fail to see the perfection in this state.
When Adam was perfect he was incomplete, he lacked the knowledge of good and evil.
I love this point! Wish I had thought of it myself.
Perfect would be to comply 100% with what God expects of you.
A thought came to me not so long ago....perfect compared to what?
I am real, my whole life has been real...it can 0nly be seen as lacking, flawed or imperfect if I compare it to something it was not....but why should I do that?
surely a real god would not compare my real life to what he knew to be a lie or a false ideal which has little to do with reality... and how could a real wise god demand we live up to a fantasy which he never showed to be valid in the first place.
why trust a being who never learned anything from anyone and made things that all die?
to see the need for a redeemer one needs to accept that reality is flawed and should be something else...which of course is silly, reality is always exactly as it must be.... sure we can IMAGINE that things could be better than they ARE, but its easy to imagine when you don't have to make it real or know what it would take to make it real... I can imagine levitating without anything more than a thought...but that is not reality....since I have no idea how to actually make that work, yet :)