Don’t Trust the Courts! Splane’s Latest Anti-Apostate Talk

by StephaneLaliberte 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Rocketman123

    Loyal servants of Jehovah go to where the need is great

    Come all Ye lawyers

    Remember when the JWS demeaned the Catholic religion for concealing their incidences of pedophilia ?

    Pot calling the kettle black

  • zachias

    So, "settling out of court does not mean they are guilty".. well he would know as the wt has used this facility and then whacks a "gag" clause on the payout.

  • Rattigan350

    "Court cases are often handled by a jury. Now who are on the jury? Ordinary citizens with no legal training."

    I will add to that, people that believe in Santa Claus and celebrate holidays because it is the thing to do. People that are... gasp... Democrats.

    So Splane is right. We can't trust juries.

  • StephaneLaliberte
    Rattigan350: So Splane is right. We can't trust juries.

    I agree that no one should put their full trust in juries, especially when we consider all the innocent people that have been thrown in jail by a jury of their peers. The system isn't perfect and injustice happen. Still, these injustices are not the majority of the rulings. In most cases, the judgement is sound and righteous. Yet, listening to Splane, seems like every ruling against WT has Satan whispering in the judge's and jury's ears, which is plain wrong and a very dangerous way of manipulating their members.

    Court rulings are recorded, documented and follow a process where they can be reviewed and contested. The WT way is to basically bully their members not to discuss these things at all, preventing them from forming their own opinion.

  • truth_b_known

    "Court cases are often handled by a jury. Now who are on the jury? Ordinary citizens with no legal training."

    A few points on this quote.

    Not all cases are decided by juries. The petitioner (the Plaintiff) in a civil suit I believe has the right to have the case heard by a jury or by the court (the Judge is decider of both law and fact). It is the reverse for criminal cases.

    Jurors are not allowed to use their legal training if they have any. This is by design. It is the Judge's responsibility to make legal decisions (what evidence can and cannot be heard). It is the juries' responsibility to be the decider of fact (is the evidence credible or not and what is the weight of the evidence).

    If the parties elect for a jury trial the first step is sitting a jury. This is a lengthy process. The purpose is to make sure no one on a jury presents any conflict of interest or is ineligible. Jurors must be unbiased toward the suit being heard and have no connection to the parties of the case.

    The attorneys representing the Watchtower would make sure that no juror on a case they are defending is -

    • A current Jehovah's Witness
    • A former Jehovah's Witness
    • Related to a current or former Jehovah's Witness
    • Knows the Plaintiff
    • Knows about other cases involving the Watchtower

    The attorneys are presented with a list of the jurors and their backgrounds. The Watchtower's attorney's could easily cross reference the list with publisher records to see if any of the perspective jurors are current or former Witnesses.

    In addition, each side gets a number of "strikes". This allows an attorney to remove perspective jurors from the jury panel without cause. The attorney needs no legal argument. The person is just excused. No questions asked.

    If the strikes from both sides and the persons struck for cause (there is a legal argument for the person not to be a juror) dwindles the pool down to less then the minimum number of jurors required this is called a "busted panel". A whole new jury panel has to be brought in. Keep in mind that jury panels range from 50 to 200 people in most cases.

    The point I am getting at is Splane's accusation is highly misleading. In a sense Splane is saying that the Watchtower's attorneys are incompetent legal counsel as the are allowing people to serve on a jury that have no business doing the job.

  • ScenicViewer

    Watchtower has been brutal against other churches that have had pedophile issues, particularly the Catholic pedophile priests.

    Years ago when the Catholic issue became public Watchtower mentioned it frequently in their literature, quoting media reports, judges, attorneys and other sources to prove how bad the Catholic Church was.

    But now, when the same media, the same courts, etc are reporting the same thing about Jehovah's Witnesses, all of a sudden you can't believe anything they say because they are all controlled by Satan.

    Hmm ... double standard on Watchtower's part?

  • dothemath

    Some of these court cases have been reported on in very prominent newspapers. I recall some of the verdicts (multi-million dollar lawsuits) being printed in the New York Times.

    I think the Candace Conti case made the news in well-known California newspapers.

    If they were all wrong, the wt would no doubt sue them for huge sums of money.

  • Rocketman123

    They lost those court cases because it was proven that the JWs involved were intentionally trying cover up these serious crimes for the sake of the organization's public image.

    Likewise so did the Catholics, they too had to pay out huge sums to victims and some of their perpetrators went to jail.

  • Vidiot
    ScenicViewer - "...double standard on Watchtower's part?"


    This should come as no surprise to any of us.

    The Org's raised double-standards to a fucking art form.


  • Vidiot
    Rocketman - "...this is what as happened due to the JWS heads trying to keep a wholesome righteous image around the organization..."

    Or, more accurately, in front of the rank and file:

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