Have Jehovah's Witnesses Become Boring?

by David_Jay 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  David_Jay

  Drearyweather,

  While everyone is entitled to their opinion, there is no separating me from Judaism because I'm Jewish, a Hebrew, Israeli.

  If it were not for my Jewish customs, my knowledge of Hebrew, my sense of honesty and duty that comes from Judaism, I would not have written the post of this thread where you have had your say that my way of life is a waste of time. I would have remained as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and have never visited this site.

  It was because I was raised as a Jew, because I grew up eating kosher, cleaning my home differently, having had a different exposure to the Scriptures than most that I was able to see through the lies of the Witness way of life and return to Judaism as soon as I was an adult and no longer under my aunt's roof.

  Judaism did not cause me to waste my life as a Jehovah's Witness. Judaism prevented that.

  Again, your opinion is just that--yours. But Jews are never totally separate from Judaism. Our culture came from it, consists of it, created it.

  I am Hebrew. I am a son of Abraham. I am Judaism. Saying that Judaism is a waste of life is to say that me and my people are just a waste of life.
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  David_Jay

  And yes, Witnesses are not as clean in private as they claim to be when they clean meeting places and halls in front of cameras for the press before conventions.

  I was shocked the way the average Witness cleaned their homes and prepared their food. Many that I knew were unsanitary in private. I knew a family of Witnesses that had a cleaning business where they cleaned homes and offices. Unless something really need cleaning, they took as many shortcuts as they could so places they worked in would only appear to be cleaned. They took the money for doing as little work as possible. It was cheating...not to mention dirty.

  Even the smallest habits I learned (mostly from my Jewish grandparents) kept reminding me something was wrong in the Watchtower. I almost drank the Kool-Aid fully at one point too, but in the end I just couldn't disown myself that was raised in a very different environment than the lives of Witnesses.

  Again, Judaism is not the greatest religion or The Truth or for everyone. It's the way Hebrews express themselves in relation to their concept of God. It's not perfect or a panacea. I may have survived without it, but the truth is I didn't survive without it. I survived because of it.
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  shepherdless

  I agree with David Jay's first post and Sir82.

  Even in the relatively short time I have been closely following this religion, there seems to have been a collective mental retreat by JW's. For example, I remember my wife would claim Russell predicted the start of WW1, and that was clear evidence for her for the Borg being the one true religion. Now I doubt she would dare mention it. A whole bunch of other stuff (eg child abuse in Catholic Church) is no longer that relevant. It is as if the dissonance has caused the mind to retreat and find new defence lines to hide behind, and most intellectual arguments have been abandoned as too hard to defend. I think that this mental retreat is a large part of why the literature is now so dumbed down.

  The other thing I have noticed is that the criticisms of the Borg are somehow leaking through to its most ardent adherents. Just recently my wife said "people might say we [JW's] are just mindless drones, but... [blah blah blah]". I couldn't help but wonder where she heard that; it must have been from someone else in the Borg.
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  Bungi Bill

  David_Jay,

  Another excellent post, and an overall discussion carried out at a depth that has become refreshingly different.

  While not these days a great fan of copy and paste, this observation of yours does rate repeating:

  It's got so boring that even on sites like this we are reduced to arguing with one another, exJW against exJW, trying to attack each other's new life and new set of convictions after the Watchtower.

  This, sadly, has become all too common on this site. Frankly, it is disturbing the level many will stoop to , thinking nothing of name calling and other ad-hominem attacks on others who are supposed to be on the same side - i.e. Ex Jehovahs Witnesses.

  As to whether the Witnesses always were boring:

  - it certainly did not seem that way when I began hearing about them in the early to mid-1960s.

  In fact, that was one of the initial attractions about the JWs; what they were saying did appear to be both relevant and interesting in the "modern" world of the often turbulent 1960s. By contrast, the mainstream churches came over as just about the very definition of the word "boring."

  Certainly, the hardback works of F.W. Franz - such as Your Will Be Done On Earth and Babylon The Great Has Fallen! :God's Kingdom Rules at least conveyed the appearance of great academic depth. (Regrettably, this was at a time when pseudo-science gained quite a following; "Chariots of the Gods", "The Bermuda Triangle" and "Harmonic 33" being some popular examples).

  I wasn't the only one to feel the same way, either. Feedback we received from the "territory" - even in the 1980s - was that "what these people are talking about is very interesting." My own sister said similar things once she entered into a "Bible Study" with the local JWs (thankfully, though, she woke up to herself before getting too deeply enmeshed!).

  It is quite correct, though, that the fizz and the sparkle has long gone out of it in recent decades!
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  smiddy

  A very interesting post David Jay ,i was a convert in 1960 and i agree that JW`s did appear to have "meat for the due seson" in those years .Beliefs /doctrines that scriptures appeared /seemed to fit the times we were living in back then.

  Lets look at some of the publications that came out from about the 1950`s. (I hope my memory serves me well here)

  "Jehovahs Witnesses In The Divine Purpose" a book that highlighted the developement and increase in the ranks of Jehovahs Witnesses.

  " Your Will Be done On Earth " the green book dealing with Daniels prophecy that spoke of the "king of the north & the king of the south" identifying them as the USSR as the king of the north and the Anglo-American power as the king of the south. { And in those days that was a plausible explanation}

  Then their was "Babylon The Great Has Fallen Gods Kingdom Rules " giving an over view of history of religion prophecying the downfall /irrelevance of religion and the vindication of Jehovahs witnesses .Not so much the ealier references but certainly the later references

  If you became a witness well after these times I mention do yourself a favour and read these publications then google what was happening in those years..

  If your lazy like me watch these movies. "The Bedford incident" , "Fail safe " , Dr Strange love ," On The Beach"

  Or President Kennedy and The Cuba Incident .
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  konceptual99

  I had a conversation just last night with a old friend who has recently gone back to the faith. I explained to him much of how I feel and we had a good conversation but I made the point that there is no depth or substance to anything anymore. The old tomes of the 60s and 70s might have been self indulgent and based on sand but they reflected a form of intellectual and scholarly depth that no longer exists.

  Everything now is an appeal to emotion not to logic. For years I was proud that as Witnesses we didn't get all happy-clappy, we didn't use emotion but we really studied the Bible. It might seem naive now but there was some substance.

  Now the religion is everything it sneered at 20 years ago.

  I made the point to my friend that what is happening is the GB having a clear plan to move the faith into something that can survive long term. The change to grab property instead of be a publishing organisation along with the rebranding of the organisation and it's approach is part of the plan to try and make the org sustainable as their predictions once again fail.

  It was an interesting chat but completely in line with the OP's thoughts.
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  Drearyweather

  David_Jay,

  Thanks for your comments. I'm trying to give my perspective on this matter.

  When I said that other religions can be boring too, I was implying the notion that based on personal experiences and one's outlook, anyone can make a comment on another's religion and faith, which may just be what it is- an opinion, not a fact.

  Does a religion or a faith or a way of life become boring just because ex-members of that faith or religion feel so? What will be your view if a couple of ex-jews discuss this and tell that Judaism is boring because there is nothing much to discuss among them?

  Bible students who left during the Rutherford era felt that the Russell Era was better and formed groups sticking to his teaching.

  Hardliners who left during the Knorr era claimed that Rutherford Era was better and stuck with Rutherford's teachings. (e.g. True Faith JW's)

  And then now we have those who felt that the Franz era was good and the current era is boring,

  So, I feel that there would always be a group of people who will feel that JW's during their period (when they were active) were better than the current one (when they have left or in process of leaving). This would happen in the future too. And this is true for all religions.

  Has Judaism benefited you? You have answered yes. But the answer would be different if you ask a person who has left and chosen to follow another religion.

  Similarly, Have Jehovah's Witnesses become boring? The answer would depend upon whom you are asking.

  But as you said, we all have our opinions and that is what they are: opinions.
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  Bungi Bill

  Smiddy,

  You could also add to that list Barry McGuire's "Eve of Destruction". So many people back then did fearfully believe that the world was sitting on a time-bomb, and that its detonation was more a question of "when" rather than "if".
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  Still Totally ADD

  Great thread David_Jay. If I remember correctly it was said many times by the Borg that being in the truth was like being in a rut. It was boring but this rut keep us safe from the world. Being a born- in it took a long time for me to climb out of that rut. I feel those who are still trap in the cult really do enjoy that rut, this feeling of safety they have. With the dumbing down of teachings even better. Boring but safe. Still Totally ADD
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  David_Jay

  Drearyweather,

  While you are correct in the details you present, it seems there's a problem in communication.

  The point of the question is somewhat allegorical in nature. "Boring" may also be the wrong word for you. What is really being discussed is why do we have less to discuss about the Jehovah's Witnesses these days? Why are we beginning to fill sites like this with fluff, with arguments about our opinions, with personal attacks upon each other?

  These have increased, and not just here but on other exJW sites. Some no longer produce anything regularly. One major site, Freeminds, which was on the cusp and on top of everything suddenly became antiquated in the blink of an eye. ExJW sites have closed. The quality of what is left regarding the Witnesses involves how they are in trouble with the law, and...well...not much else.

  After Franz died, their doctrine making days ended. The new Governing Body buried not just the mistakes of the past, but all the in-depth teachings and 100 years of Witness theology--some of which was actually useful--and buried it away in a hole. It's like the new Governing Body did this not because these teachings were wrong, but it seems that they aren't smart enough to understand it. If they were, why aren't the current publications and programs far more advanced in nature? Instead, they have become simpler and simpler.

  This isn't the same with other religions. Mormonism has introduced critical teaching into its theology for the first time. Catholicism and Protestantism have built bridges so as to now agree on the subjects that once divided them. The Christian-Jewish dialogues have gone so well that proselytizing Jews has stopped in all major Christian denominations, and Orthodox Judaism itself now accepts Jesus as a Jewish sage. And Judaism is dissolving its lines of division within itself, ending the era of Jewish denominations, with the era of rabbinical leadership being changed into an era where individual Jews can now know as much as any rabbi, even more, becoming rabbis unto themselves.

  JWs have taken steps backwards by comparison. We are not saying that they are just "boring." We are noting that they are not making anything but superficial advancements. What's really new or advanced about JW thought? Where's the forward evolution of their thinking, the advances in their theology? Where are they building bridges? Why are the JW leaders becoming the center of it all, while in Judaism (for comparison) the average Jew is being taught to know as much and more than their previous rabbinical leadership?

  So "boring" may not be the right word for you to understand the point we're making here. The JWs are going backwards. They are stripping themselves bare. Instead of the light growing brighter, it has dimmed and may be going out. Another way to post the original question is, Why are the JWs Going Backwards?