Biology Lesson for the gals

by Francois 32 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Francois

  Elsewhere in the Active Topics list is a great post from Wasasister dealing in a very wise manner with women's hormonal cycle. The viewpoint and outlook contained in her post was to my mind very well done, thoughtful, considerate, and made a number of points that would be helpful to keep in mind in dealing with the male/female dynamic.

  So I hope (and believe) that Wasa won't mind if I use her post to springboard to one of my own - the mirror image of hers.

  Wasa makes a very good point in saying that women are jerked around by the hormones in their blood every month. And lots of us know at least one woman whose PMS reaches truly epic proportions.

  And the guys, are we not jerked around by hormones in our blood, too?

  How many times have you been accused of never thinking of anything but sex, of always thinking with your little head, of being single-minded and driven, and what's more - being disgusting by being so predictable?

  If women deserve compassion and sympathy because they are jerked around by hormones in their blood for four to six days every month, what about a little better understanding from women for the men - who are jerked around by hormones in our blood EACH AND EVERY DAY, with no letup, no surcease, no vacation, no rest - ever???

  I am approaching sixty years old. Finally, the amount of hormone in my blood is tapering off, and I can sense the difference. I'm not so driven to jump the bones of every attractive woman I see. (I'm not dead, either, just cooled off a little.) It's hard to describe the relief I feel at not being led around by the, um, nose all the time.

  We men are just as helpless to do anything about the hormones flashing around our bloodstream at near the speed of light as are women helpless.

  Now we are all grown up people. The jokes are gonna continue, for example when I was accused of thinking only with my little head, I delighted in rejoinding with, "Yeah, but at least I'm thinking with SOMETHING." I got a lotta practice dodging flying objects that way, too.

  But can we not, each side in this situation, admit that we each have a problem to deal with in terms of our natural programming and our helplessness in dealing with it, and extend some sympathy - if not empathy - some understanding and compassion for problems we ALL HAVE?

  Whathca think?

  Francois
• 

  Abaddon

  It is a fair point.

  A lesbian writer, Camilla Piaget (I think I have that surname wrong but it's close-ish) once had an injection of testosterone out of curiosity.

  In her own words, she stepped out onto the street and wanted to "fuck everything she saw".

  Of course, I don't think that criminal activity or violation of others rights should be 'okay' if you're randy (I know you're not saying that).

  But guys are guys for a variety of reasons, just as women are women. Our gender affects our behaviour. We are sentient creatures, so it shouldn't, for horny men or pre-menstural women, be carte-blanche for being a shit.

  Just calls for understanding I think.
• 

  Tina

  With all due respect Francoise,
  I prefer not to have a mans 'sympathy and compassion" for what is a normal biological female process.
  I'm a woman,I also breath,,,does that evoke your sympathY?
  Having sympathy and compassion smacks of commiseration for some 'defect' or 'handicap'. Women's bio processes are not defective,-I am not defective-therefore no 'sympathy' is needed. Regards,Tina
• 

  joelbear

  We are all animals, driven by our animal instincts

  beastly hugs

  Joel
• 

  Francois

  Tina, as stated, my post is in a large way a response to that of Wasasister's. Did you read it? Do you notice the similarity? She may not have used those same words to which you object, but they are there none-the-less.

  And nowhere have I implied that either the depression, anxiety, hostility, etc. of women, or the single-mindedness of men is somehow a defect. That is your analysis; those are your words.

  And while you may not feel that the very real consequences of hormonal fluctuations in the human body of women AND men constitute a problem, there are entire branches of medicine dedicated to its study and treatment. Not too many years ago, the National Organization of Women attempted to have PMS classified as an extenuating circumstance in homocide. And you don't see this as a problem requiring attention, mutual understanding, and compassion?

  And where did I say that women should receive "a man's sympathy and compassion"? I didn't. Those are your words. I'm saying such a positive attitude should be extended to all by all.

  I much prefer receiving comment upon what I DID say, not what you say I said. With all due respect, Tina, it seems you have a rather large chip on your shoulder.

  Abaddon, the person to whom you're referring is Camille Paglia, liberal spokesperson, humanities professor, insightful social critic, and one helluvan excellent writer.

  And of course, criminal behavior should not be excused because of the subject phenomena: not rape in the case of guys; not homocide in the case of women (Note: this statement is meant as a rhetorical device. Not a broad definition. Please accept it as such.) Note the comment above about NOW. Nor should the phenomena be used as an excuse for being a shit, as you say. Too many of us of both sexes seem just to go with the flow of our instincts absent any mediation of social responsibility.

  Joel, you are right on the money as usual. And I fully believe that the "mark of the beast" in realisty is exactly what you make reference to. And in order to get to be a next-level being, each of us must erase all traces of the mark of the beast from ourselves. Ain't that the next step in human evolution? Prolly can't do it as long as we've got bodies, but in the next life, we prolly won't have those to contend with.
• 

  joelbear

  I think there are 3 possible next steps to human evolution and therefore to human society as a whole.

  1. Humanity is sublimated by technology. That is, humanity programs themselves into electronic format or are replaced by very humanlike machines which can replicate themselves. Bill Joy, chief scientist at Sun Microsystems and others point to this as a possibility so its not a far fetched as it sounds.

  2. Humanity becomes extinct. That is, humanity uses up all of the earth's natural resources or pollutes them into unuseableness leaving the earth to more adaptable creatures like cockroaches and rats. This is the consequence of replacing a natural based value system with a fiat based value system (fiat means declared value, ie. a dollar is worth a dollar because someone says it is worth a dollar). Money is worth more than a rain forest, etc. That is until the natural world is gone and we figure out we can't eat, drink or breathe our money.

  3. Humanity recognizes itself as a piece of a larger interconnected natural living universe and applies equal value to all parts of that natural universe including themselves. In other words, man comes to an understanding that he is not separate from nature or over nature. He is not a special creature made in god's image thus differentiating himself and giving him special privileges.

  All three are possible outcomes. In all probability, we will not see which outcome occurs in our lifetime, but I highly suspect your grandchildren or great grandchildren will.

  hopeful hugs

  Joel
• 

  Tina

  You're right I re-read it,you didn't say that-you said 'if they deserve sypmathy and compassion(not that you were giving it.) I stand corrected there.
  But now you say a positive attitude should be had by all? The refering to 'sympathy and compassion' as the positive attitude?
  That seems to clarify what you meant.And it's the same stuff,bit different wording is all.

  You're other points,Im well aware of female biology and some of the problems it has. I don't need your know-it-all attitude on that .
  Im well aware of what's in the DSM- and the politics that go along with classifications.
  Not everyone is in agreement about the PMS issue.

  I have no chip,but think what you like. Your post smacked of condescension veiled as 'understanding' . What ever you write isn't going change how I perceive it.
  And I won't argue with MR Know it all about female biology,lol. Save it for someone else. I ain't impressed. There's a lot you DONT know. Would help if you posted in a less "I know better than you" format. That's why I usually dont respond to posters such as yourself...(and wont waste valuable posting time again here to you personaly) Tina
• 

  COMF

  Francois, being not only male but also old enough to remember the pre-women's lib days (not quite up there with you yet, but close, and time's a-marching on), I understand all that you said, and the personal historical background for it. Yep, yep, yep.

  Now, with that said: as soon as I read that sentence to which Tina objected, I too thought to myself, "Uh-oh... that's not good." At first I was going to answer with something to that effect, but then I saw that Tina had done so already. So instead of answering in the thread, I just fired off an email to her, congratulating her on a well-spoken reply. But then it occurred to me that maybe I was being cowardly, or remiss toward my own sex, by not posting in the forum.

  So (doing penance) here's the text of my email to T, verbatim:

  Love your answer to Francois on the forum. When I read those words I thought the same thing, and I was wording my answer in my mind as I read the rest of it. Then when I got to your post, I saw that you had already said it. Bravo!
  
  I would go ahead and post, but the problem is that if I did that now, it would just make it look like I was another clueless male taking a cue to the right behavior by watching and copying the ladies! LOL
  
  Love ya,
  COMF
• 

  Tina

  (((((((Comf))))))))
  I stand by my post,only clarifying that he said "IF" not that he personally gave sympathy-but his next post went on to say the same thing only differently. Some folk aren't as enlightened asa they think they are. I'm always grateful for the enlightened ones such as yourself and a few others. luv ya,Tina
  PS. Posts like F's are a good example of thinking still filtered thru biblical patriarchal nonsense.
  PSS Comf,I'm glad your preceptions we're as mine."D TY! T
• 

  Abaddon

  Sympathy and compassion can smack of commiseration for some 'defect' or 'handicap', but in this discussion I don't think anyone means it that way.

  All guys with female partners know that, depending on the partner's own biology, and on whether she is on birth-control pills, there will be an emotional cycle varying from unnoticable to in your face. Sympathy and compassion for me in this instance means being aware of the greater amplitude of emotions at that time, and of not taking things personally when they're not meant to be, and of understanding, rather than trying to solve everything.

  As you say "Women's bio processes are not defective", but you can still be sympathetic and compasionate without implying your partner is in anyway at fault.