Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

by SecondRateMind 226 Replies latest jw friends

  • SecondRateMind
    The way to help people is to actually help them to stand on their feet, not throw food into the gutter.

    Then, Simon, do it. And encourage others likewise. No one, least of all me, is preventing you.

    Best wishes, 2RM.

  • Simon
    capitalism does nothing for people in absolute poverty

    The fact is that capitalism has done more to lift people out of poverty than any other system.

    Who knew that providing an ecosystem where people could work for a living could provide people with a living.

    Communism is death. See Venezuela for a recent example of what happens when people decide that wealth redistribution is the answer - people who previously weren't in abject poverty now are.

    Your utopia can never happen because it doesn't take into account that there are always leaders, even under your crackpot scheme (so a hierarchy of unequals) and also people are not equal in their abilities, creativity or their endeavour. Something like 90% of output is down to 10% of people, the rest are along for the ride. If you destroy the incentives then you don't get that output and society collapses, demonstrated time and again.

    Also, why should anyone work hard for years to become a surgeon when they can just sweep the streets and get the same?

    Only if there are people with guns telling them what they should do. Where's your utopia then?

  • SecondRateMind

    Simon, I think you are becoming a little over-excited, and a little less than rational. And, if you had read the whole thread through (which, I admit, is by now becoming quite some task) you would know that I am not a communist, and do not advocate communism. Just a voluntary, charitable, redistribution of the world's wealth.

    Best wishes, 2RM.

  • just fine
    just fine

    In the industrialized countries - many people choose to be poor by making ill advised life choices. No amount of money given to them will change that. They don’t want to work hard, learn a trade, go to college or do any of the things that would better their situation. In the US we all have every opportunity available to us. And still people would rather stay in poverty.

    I read an interesting article on the poverty mindset that results in people making choices that keep them in poverty. It basically boils down to “the situation I am in is not my fault and I am helpless to change it.” From your postings here I would say you have the poverty mindset, you think the rich are evil and should solve everyone else’s problems.

  • OrphanCrow
    SRM: Just a voluntary, charitable, redistribution of the world's wealth.

    That state of mind is irrational.

    And, rather ridiculous.

    Lol! We will let you be the one to tell all the crime bosses your new plan.

  • hoser

    I already distribute to the poor every year through the taxes I pay. I also help those close to me when I feel they are deserving. Other than that my working really hard to give to someone who will most likely squander it is a waste of my and their time.

  • SecondRateMind
    Something like 90% of output is down to 10% of people, the rest are along for the ride.

    Evidence, please, Simon. And while you are about it, consider that half the world, male and female, are unable to get their businesses off the ground, because they lack the access to funding. How wasteful of human resource is that?

    Best wishes, 2RM.

  • dubstepped

    Why are you guys still trying to talk sense into someone that believes in fairy tales as the basis for this philosophy that defies all reality? SRM isn't here to find out your views on money like he said from the jump, he's here to sell an idea that he's doing an awful job of selling, and he clearly doesn't care to face realities that have been presented. Either he's trolling and having fun with this, or he's just one of those people that believes in belief, and there's no openness to facts in opposition of that belief. It's like trying to reason with a closed minded JW. A waste of time. He can only see his point of view and little else.

    Peace. Good luck SRM.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Just a voluntary, charitable, redistribution of the world's wealth - this pie-in-the-sky nonsense just cannot work.

    In theory, if it's voluntary, every rich person could decide to give exactly no money each and every month.

    And then what? ...

  • nonjwspouse

    SRM many capitalists have provided money for foundations, charities, organisations. I agree, that is a wonderful thing.

    To give it all away? That is extreme and self-defeating. The monetary stream of donations and contributions to society would then dry up. Money does not grow on trees it must be worked for, either physically or mentally. Poorly raised children of rich families, ( not taught the value of hard work,) are many times trainwrecks, and eventually run the previously hard worked for wealth into the ground.

    Inherited wealth is not evil. It can be a liability for those who were not taught how to value it. It can be a continued source of jobs, and donation streams to those who were taught how to value it.

    I can't find the source right now, maybe someone else has it handy, but the contributions to the needy , foundations, charities etc., most effectively come from the private sector, voluntarily, already. Government forced ( tax funded) agencies are many times found to be notoriously corrupted, and all of them are designed to be inefficient. (Thereby necessitating increasing funding $$ the next year).

    I've enjoyed this ridiculously long, but interesting thread. It is a debate that frequently comes up.

    Thank you Simon, and Thank you SRM for beginning it.

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