"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis 35 Replies latest watchtower bible


    LOL! @ SimonSays for being mad! Rutherfraud was a delusional meglomaniac who consistently went "beyond the things written" to promote his brand.

    He built the equivalent of a multi-million dollar mansion during the Great Depression and prophesied that the "ancient worthies" would be resurrected in 1925! Remember that?!? He was a charlatan of the highest degree. Defending him reveals your level of delusion.

    By the way, jwleaks took nothing out of context. He simply exposed the circular and faulty reasoning of the WTBTS with their own literature. It's like you God said, "by your words you will be condemned." Such is the fate of false prophets.


  • Atlantis


    I will be happy to address your statements! No problem!


    By: Lorri MacGregor; ©June 2002
    The Watchtower Society’s second president, Rutherford, declared in 1931 that “there was no further
    need for the administration of the holy spirit as a comforter or advocate.” Is the Holy Spirit now
    unnecessary? That is just one of the strange teachings Lorri MacGregor addresses.
    Many persons today would agree that the Watchtower Society of Jehovah’s Witnesses is devoid of the Holy Spirit. They cite their wrong doctrines, missed prophecies, and tragic quirks like refusing blood transfusions as evidence that they do not have the leading of the holy spirit. We would agree. However, we wonder how many readers know that the holy spirit was dismissed from the Organization, as no longer required, in 1918? (Their holy spirit is not God, but an active force, so is deliberately not capitalized.) Still, to dismiss the Holy Spirit is a serious matter, one would think.
    Sadly, this is true. This came to light in 1930, when Rutherford, the Society’s second president began to teach that God removed the holy spirit from the remnant in 1918. In his book Salvation, published in 1939, on pages 216-217, Rutherford, referring to 1918, said this: “…in that year the Lord Jesus came to the temple of Jehovah God. The holy spirit that had been the guide of God’s people, having performed its functions, was taken away….”
    In the 1931 Yearbook in the comments for November 2nd, he stated, “With the Lord’s coming to his temple there was no further need for the administration of the holy spirit as a comforter or advocate” (See also Watchtower, 10/01/30).
    Some may wonder at the wording of Rutherford that Jesus returned to his “temple” in 1918. He explains this in the 1941 booklet, “Theocracy,” page 32: “In 1918 the Lord Jesus came to the temple of Jehovah, that is to say, to the body of consecrated Christians.”
    Since the body of Christ was identified by Rutherford as this “temple of the holy spirit” that meant that the holy spirit was removed from the body of Christ! A shocking develop­ment!

  • under the radar
    under the radar

    In the Watchtower of December 15, 2008, page 28, there appears this quote about lessons to be learned from the book Second John (2 John):

    2, 4. Our coming to know “the truth”the entire body of Christian teachings that has become part of the Bible—and adhering to it are essential for our salvation.3 John 3, 4.

    It seems to me they were saying that "the entire body of Christian teachings" (including modern "understandings," doctrines, and policies) have "become part of the Bible" and therefore have the same weight and authority as the Bible itself.

    If this was the intent, it's presumptuous in the extreme and practically blasphemous, given the many flip-flops and constant self-serving "adjustments" due to "new light."

  • BluesBrother

    Very interesting.. Just to provide the full context, in case it is questioned, I put up the full pages 216/217 "Salvation" Book.

  • BluesBrother

    Returning to the the thought of the original post, then I guess we have to blame Jesus for being anti vaccinations, advising that aluminium cooking pots poisoned the users, the 1975 debacle and all the doctrinal flip-flops that we have seen.

    I guess then that Jesus wanted them told wrong ...or did he?

  • SimonSays

    I have read all 3 volumes of vindication, and understand it’s reasoning for that era. Of course, I won’t apply it to modern ideology, but the core value still holds. Here, you should ask any modern day bible student why they haven’t revised their understanding. My question has not been answered. Your claim, is that the WTS is devoid of the Holy Spirit, because some self-proclaimed theorist has told you.

    I thought you people were strong advocates of “free will”, but that’s another story. So far, I’ve, read what other people have told you, like Rutherford was a drunk, cheat, liar, child molester, etc. He built a mansion Beth Sarim on the WTS donated money, even though it was just a home, without having a clue, that he built his retirement home on the suggestion of his doctor to aid him with his health issues after the release of his imprisonment under the Catholic authority, by personal donations of his friends separate from any WTS contributions that you people have a strong “opinion” on. However, that doesn’t make your opinions “FACT” That makes it a distortion of the truth.

    I also understand, the stance of your “opinion” on the flip-flops. This again is just an opinion, it doesn’t make it fact. The WTS has never said, it wouldn’t be revising its understanding as new light surfaced. That’s God’s purpose to guide. To Christendom, this “New Light” is the distortions you people conveniently continue to use.

    But, to the WTS, it’s a revelation from God’s, Holy Spirit. Now, I come back to my original question. Prove to me, that’s not the case. You people are so such of yourselves, by giving the public a definite answer in your “opinion”, then prove it. Show me how you can be, this conclusive to know how God is not with the WTS aside from your personal opinions and distorted facts. So far, all I read is conjecture, now that’s presumptuous.

    Now, I haven’t insulted anyone, so let’s keep the personal attacks in check, and not turn it to rhetoric.

  • Listener
    Simon says, please prove that the holy spirit is not with the Mormons or Ray Franz.
  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot


    "Show me how you can be, this conclusive to know how God is not with the WTS aside from your personal opinions and distorted facts."

    This advertisement for Rutherford's booklets, at the end of the book Vindication III, should give a hint:

    "Each treatise can be read in just fifteen minutes, and more genuine satisfaction and profitable pleasure derived therefrom in that length of time than can be gotten from studying the Bible by yourself in a whole year." - Vindication Volume III page 383 (Link)

  • 2+2=5


    You are the making the assertions FFS! Arguing about Holy Spirit??

    None of that shit is real man get a grip.

  • SimonSays

    Simon says, please prove that the holy spirit is not with the Mormons or Ray Franz.Listener

    In my personal opinion, I can’t. Just, like I can’t prove Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith in the desert, back in the 1800 hundreds to give him personal revelation. I also can’t personally prove, that the Pontiff has a personal conversation with God every morning at first light. Even though, Ray was a dear friend, he allowed his emotions, to lose focus on biblical understanding, since it hurt him that his good buddy was fellowshipped. That was Satan doing. Can I prove it? Well unless I write down my memories, I could explain his devotion to his friend. And how he lost sight, in his belief; because of it. I could also explain, how Ray wanted the WTS returned to the days of Rutherford. Aside from that, no! But then again, I don’t pretend to, and that still doesn’t answer my question. Can you personal make a claim you’re sure, Jesus met Smith? Let’s not use conjecture on why the WTS makes comparison on why they believe Christendom is flawed with certain views, just as Russell and Rutherford voiced their concern, why Christendom was erred about “Hellfire” back then. Let’s not use verse psychology, it’s not about me. My Question is to you all. Practice what you preach, so to speak!

    If, that be the case, we would have to revisit the entire history of man. Was the first humans righteous or unjust, so forth and so on?

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