by got my forty homey? 47 Replies latest jw friends
I don't really know what you would call me.
Personally... I believe that abortion is murder. Sorry, that's the way I feel. HOWEVER, I'm right there with Devon, I don't believe that I have the right to force my opinions and morals on anyone else. No matter, what. And, honestly, since I'm not going to be put in this situation, it's really a moot point.
So would that make me an "Anti-Abortion-Pro-Lifer?" OR, an "Pro-Choice-Anti-Abortionist?"
This has been a calmer thread than I thought it would be. Are we learning to state our disagreements in an agreeable manner? COOL!
And by the way, I personally would never have an abortion but my morals and opinions should not be forced on anyone else.
you can replace the word ABORTION up there with almost any word you want...and that sentence still works....
"Personally I would never murder, but my morals and opinions should not be forced on anyone else"
Personally I would never abuse my kids, but my morals and opinoins....
Personally I would never molest a kid.....
personally i would never give drugs to a child...
etc etc etc
If we were talking about medically necessary abortions I don't think too many people would holler...but we're talking abortions for the sake of convenience...and that's just plain ugly in my opinion. We have made a step in the right direction with the banning of Partial Birth Abortions.
Soledad: bang on!
Pro-birth control.
There are countless methods to prevent pregnancy with the responsibility (one would hope) falling upon both. If folks utilized these effectively, then well...these discussions would be few and far between, or perhaps even non-existant.
Alas! that's pipe dream thinking.
It's up to the individual, and essentially they have to live with their decision.
Not you, not me.
Pro-choice.
PS: how many pages before this is locked?
This has been a calmer thread than I thought it would be. Are we learning to state our disagreements in an agreeable manner? COOL!
Perhaps, but to be honest i just ignored the troll post from Amazing.
you can replace the word ABORTION up there with almost any word you want...and that sentence still works...."Personally I would never murder, but my morals and opinions should not be forced on anyone else"
Personally I would never abuse my kids, but my morals and opinoins....
Personally I would never molest a kid.....
personally i would never give drugs to a child...
etc etc etc
I don't think so. Abortion IS a moralistic issue and as such is a matter of your personal beliefs, hence we are having this discussion. We wouldn't be having this discussion if someone suggested that child abuse were ok and normal.
You and others who are pro life and anti abortion are attempting to foist your moral judgement on everyone else. You are well within your rights to refuse to conduct or recieve abortions but you DO NOT have the right to inflict your moral standpoint on anyone else. Would you support the JW's inflicting their stand on blood on everyone? It equates to the same thing.
If we were talking about medically necessary abortions I don't think too many people would holler...but we're talking abortions for the sake of convenience...and that's just plain ugly in my opinion. We have made a step in the right direction with the banning of Partial Birth Abortions.I agree, except we are not talking about abortions for convenience for the most part. Abortions are only carried out after a medical professional has interviewed the patient and assessed their reasons for wanting to terminate the pregnancy. It is rare that a person wants an abortion due to unthought out flippant reasons.
I'll just quickly say (before this gets locked) that I am pro-birth control. If you dont want a child you should know what to do. abortion should not be used as a means for birth control.
But therein lies the crux of the matter as well. I was on 2 forms of birth control (contraceptive gel & the sponge) along with the rythm method the last 2 times I conceived. Unable to tolerate other forms of control, and I won't even begin to say why condoms won't work in our situation I did not choose abortion as an alternative.
I am in agreement with the gentleman who expressed disagreement with life beginning at conception - it is really not that simple. The fetus is not a viable entity with its own brain & heart for a few weeks after conception.
For those that believe otherwise, are also saying the "morning after" pill should not be allowed.
I do not agree with abortion after the 3-4th week of conception, unless there is a medical necessity.
Anyone who would believe a woman uses Abortions as "birth control" has not either experienced the procedure or been with someone who has. It's extremely painful, physically, emotionally & mentally. Along with all the physical pain of an abortion, the woman must also suffer through the emotional issues that come with the change in hormones & the mental abuse that comes with all the stigmatism that is placed on her by the "Pro-Lifer's".
Rape and incest have been mentioned. As have "medically necessary" abortions.
All, as possible justification, for an abortion. Does anyone have statistics on how often that is the case? What is the ratio of these type of abortions to all abortions performed? Does anyone know?
Onintwo
I am not a debating person by nature, and I find it hard to take a singular stance towards any moral issue such as the one in question. Both sides can make good arguments, just like reading an Ann Coulter book and then reading an Al Franken book can leave a person hopelessly confused politically.
This question raises a lot of sticky issues for religious conservatives though. If a fetus has an immortal soul, then where does this soul go upon the fetus being aborted? If I understand correctly, religious conservatives believe that the soul of an aborted fetus goes straight to heaven. But those of us who are born and grow and mature have to measure up if we're to make it to the pearly gates. So if this life is all about making ourselves right with God so that our soul won't be tortured forever in hell upon our death, then according to this view aborting a fetus is really doing its soul a favor.
One aspect of the pro-choice view that bothers me is the statement that a woman should have full rights over her own body. I don't agree that a developing fetus is wholly and inseparably part of its mother's body, any more than I believe that my eyelash mites are part of my body. They are dependent on me for sustenance, but that doesn't make them me.
I am definitely pro choice- I think everyone should have the choice to pay taxes or not or to send their kids to private schools at the gov's expense if they do choose to pay taxes. Oh, and I am an antiabortionist.
Yeru - I am not meaning this to sound mean, or be insultive. But, I do find it highly strange that a man in your position is such a pro-lifer. Considering the company you work for, and what that company is willing to do to protect the people of this country, do you not find this a tad hypocritical?
If a woman chooses abortion, it is usually because she is protecting either herself or perhaps looking at the best interests of her family. What gives you or anyone else that matter the right to "judge" what she does with her body?
I went with a friend not to long ago to one of those "clinics" - I have never been so disgusted in my whole life. It was a Saturday. The women all showed up before 8:00 A.M. for paperwork & all the other necessary procedures. The actual procedures don't begin until after 12:00 noon. So, there sit 40-50 women, all waiting their turn. A lot having the physical symptoms of pregnancy (nausea, etc.) but unable to do anything about it, as they cannot eat or drink anything until after the procedure. So, for 4-1/2 hours they sit there and suffer. Outside, a group of Christians were picketing, praying, chanting & holding up signs calling these women murderer's, etc, while their own children sat there, probably wishing their parents would actually spend some time with them for a change
Then, after 12:00, they all start going into the back, like cattle herding really. There's only 1 doctor with several assistants, and they start turning the women out, 1 by 1. Done & over by 2:00 (my g/f was one of the last). I sat there with her while she was treated as nothing but a piece of meat - there was no humanity to it whatsoever. "Get up on the table, put your feet in the stirrups" etc. etc. Then the doctor comes in and without so much of a word starts his business. The machine turns on (horribly loud I might add) and he begins. My girlfriend instantly is in extreme traumatic pain, and can do nothing. She squirms, the doctor says "stay still", she tries to stay still as her uterus is sucked out of her without any pain medication whatsoever (okay, they do use a little on the cervix, but from what I can see, it ain't helping at all). The machine shuts off and the doctor walks out, without having said more than 3 words. She was cramping horribly, and was escorted to the "recovery" area - nothing but a bunch of plastic recliners with 10 other women, all in various stages of pain, emotional, mental & physical.
My g/f didn't talk much on the way home, but she cried. I don't blame her - I was crying to. Not only because of her choice, but because of how much was taken from her on so many different levels in the process, and how dirty we both felt for even having been there. She was only 3 weeks along, and this procedure did more than end a pregnancy.
These "Christians" - who are they to judge? Who were they to make her (and me as well) feel so "dirty" for being there? What scripture in the bible gives any "Pro-Lifer's" the right to do & say what they do and say? From what I understand about the Bible, only God has that right.
Considering the company you work for, and what that company is willing to do to protect the people of this country, do you not find this a tad hypocritical? Not at all, the biggest difference being the defense of the country and that we don't target innocent people though they are often killed by the action.
If a woman chooses abortion, it is usually because she is protecting either herself or perhaps looking at the best interests of her family. What gives you or anyone else that matter the right to "judge" what she does with her body? That baby growing inside her is NOT her body...it has seperate DNA. What gives a mother the right to kill that baby...and how is it different than killing the baby after it's born?
Here's a problem as I see it...most "pro-choicers" want unlimited access to abortion up until the birth of the baby itself. Most of the PC crowd I've talked to include Partial Birth Abortion in that circle of acceptable abortions. If we were talking only medically necessary abortion...and those that resulted from rape...I seriously doubt there would be the outcry there is from people. If the PC crowd didn't seem to think that it's ok for a 13 year old girl to make a decision about abortion without informing the parents...much less getting their permission...well...what other non-emergency surgery can a 13 year old get without the parents being informed and consenting?
