New Article - Watchtower View of Homosexuality (page 4)

steve2

Thanks Paul. I guess I don't expect any religious groups to be informed about psychosexual issues such as "causes" of differing sexual orientations. They see their "job" as adhering to their interpretation of Scripture - then fit everything else around that. Of course, they often make ludicrous "fittings" in the meantime.

Regarding the Bible's "view" on homosexuality, I have absolutely no problem stating that there are texts spread throughout the Bible that condemn same-sex sexual relations. All else is special pleading. I also have no difficulty accepting that a group that states it is literally following the Bible would "speak out" against homosexuality - at least as practised as in that old quaint term "practising homosexual"..

Being gay myself, I was at one time familiar with gay Christians' apologetics regarding these Scriptures and my frank conclusion was to declare their "reasoning" convoluted.

I found it akin to people offering a kinder, gentler view of the Bible's view on women. Oh, if you search, you will find verses that women might find empowering, but you have to be pretty magical to make all the troublesome verses "fit" a modern and enlightened view of women. Patriarchy be damned.

Yes, malicious seems more apt than slanderous!

millie210

I really appreciate your input Steve.

millie210

Paul your article is excellent!

jwfacts

I have read that the defection from Christianity in the US in the last decade by younger generations is related to views on homosexuality more than any other reason. Just stating the facts about what the Bible and Watchtower says is hopefully enough that people start to realise the viewpoints are not inspired and can be questioned.

DATA-DOG

Guys, don't worry about any of this. An Elder just told me that The End will be here in about five years...

DD

Listener

One Eyed Joe referred to a video instruction for Elders. I don't know where this is, however, there are a couple of written sources.

You could add this written instruction that was in the leaked 130 page CO guideline and states

If the body of elders agrees that a brother or sister is blatantly and deliberately ignoring repeated counsel, and his or her dress and grooming is disturbing to the congregation, the elders may determine that the person no longer qualifies to share in the ministry. In such rare cases, no announcement would be made to the congregation. (Chapter 10 – point 9)

If you think appropriate, you could add this where you make the following comment to show the lengths they are willing to go by personally making judgements that individuals will not qualify to engage in ministry activity even though they normally advocate that this is considered to be a biblical instruction that we are each individually responsible to undertake. It is not specific in stating what is unacceptable dress but fits in with your comments. Crazily, it also shows a 'mob' mentality.

It shows how all-controlling Watchtower leaders want to be, when a well dressed man in a business suit can be counselled for their clothing.

Then there is the another leaked document which is a CO outline to be discussed only with the Elders and found at the following site.

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/the-tight-pants-rule-wearing-disturbing-clothing-gets-you-banned-from-preaching

I'll post the extract in a separate post following as it will otherwise mess up this post.

You may not want to include it as I don't know if the source has been verified, it does look genuine and if a JW wanted to verify it they could approach a CO with a copy. (Personally I take great issue that they secretly hide these additional instructions from the r&f).

The outline encompasses a whole new issue here - men leaning towards dressing and displaying effeminate qualities and females dressing or grooming in a more masculine way.

If you want to include it there is a huge thread that discusses the many issues that it raises, I would be happy to go through it and make a summary of it if you want. This is not a small issue and goes well beyond their public stand on homosexuality (and well beyond anything the bible instructs).

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5418446820999168/no-tight-pants-policy-now-official-classed-disturbing?page=20&size=10

Listener

From JW Survey, leaked CO talk outline to Elders

defender of truth

Great article Jwfacts.

All I can think of to add is this.

In 2006 Kingdom news no.37 was distributed worldwide.

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200273273/16/2

Here are some parts of it that you might want to include:

Kingdom News No. 37
A Worldwide Message
The End of False Religion Is Near!
The fault lies, not with all religion, but with false religion. A widely respected religious figure, Jesus Christ, indicated that false religion produces bad works, just as a “rotten tree produces worthless fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-17) What fruit does false religion yield?
False Religion . . .
▪ TOLERATES IMMORAL SEX: In Western lands, church groups ordain gay and lesbian members of the clergy and urge governments to recognize same-sex marriages. Even churches that condemn immorality have tolerated religious leaders who have sexually abused children. What, though, does the Bible teach? It plainly states: “Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men . . . will inherit God’s kingdom.” (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) Do you know of religions that condone immoral sex?
What does the future hold for religions that produce rotten fruit? Jesus warned: “Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire.” (Matthew 7:19) Yes, false religion will be chopped down and destroyed!
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102006290

Not sure whether this could fit in anywhere, but I'm just putting it here, in case it's useful.

Fernando

Great article and an important topic close to my heart.

Anyone up for a laugh?

JWFacts: "It is an incredible concept to put forward "that masturbation can lead into homosexuality." With over 95% of males admitting to masturbating, and only 5% of males being gay, it is impossible to find any meaningful correlation between the two."

Maybe there is a correlation after all? It looks like not admitting to masturbating can make one gay - watch out Watchtower!

slimboyfat

Well done, some of those quotes are really shocking. Especially the Awake! From 1995. I had never seen that before.

Is that Brokeback Mountain they're watching at the cinema?

New Article - Watchtower View of Homosexuality

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