When JWs come here

by larc 50 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Introspection

  Hi Larc,

  I am not too worried about those who became JWs later in life like myself, but I am rather concerned for those raised in it. As you've pointed out, they are not taught critical thinking skills, but the difference with those who have spent their entire lives in the WTS is that it was with them as they were going through critical stages of development, and for them it no doubt runs pretty deep. Again, as some of you have pointed out they often resort to ad hominem arguments and attack the person. I think one obvious fact is that most JWs actually does very little self-examination and may be almost incapable of it. What do you think, can they be placed in the early developmental stages of say Piaget? I wonder if they are behind compared to the general population, but of course the indoctrination would complicate things even if they were at the same level.
• 

  Tina

  Hi Intro,
  I do think an application of cognitive distortions can be made using Piaget theory on developmental stages, that might put those raised in the borg behind the gen pop.
  Using the Piaget model,the moral(rather than cognitive) distortions would come during the concrete operational and formal operational stages. What he calls moral realism and moral relativism. The problem using this 2 stage model is that it is unable to capture the variety of judgements seen in childhood,adolescence,and adulthood.
  I think you would find contrasting Piaget with Kohlberg's model of moral/developmental reasoning,noting the Preconventional level(obedience and punishemnt orientation) quite interesting.(I find Kohlberg much more relevant to to JW childhood re:moral reasoning)
  just MHO,regards,Tina
  Oops lol,forgot to mention,for even more fun :> see what Gilligan says about Kohlberg omitting gender differences during those stages.
• 

  riz

  Hi Mommie Dark,

  I loved your analogy. So true.

  riz
• 

  outnfree

  Hear, Hear!!!

  Me, too, Mommie Dark. The analogy was EXCELLENT!

  I'm impressed, too, with the quality of all the thoughtful responses, especially as I'm not one who has spent a lot of time THINKING about all these issues. It's great to read your thoughts, guys (GENERIC term, Tina! ).

  outnfree
• 

  larc

  Hi folks,

  I have been thinking about what Introspection and Tina said. I was raised in it, so I have to ask myself, how I was able to develope critical thinking skills? I did develope these on the late side. I did not see the problems until I was about 18 years old. Until that time, I was a true believer, with no doubts whatsoever. I think the turning point was when a friend of mine told me that the JWs used to believe in the importance of the Pyramids. I didn't believe it, so I checked out old publications at used book stores. I was shocked and amazed at what I read, not just about the Pyramids, but about the very different interpretation of Daniel and Revelation way back when. The stuff did not even read like the same religion. The next big step was when I went to college and discovered what a big world there is out there and how tiny and insignificant the JWs are by contrast.
  I think that the Society trys to keep everyone so busy that they don't have the time or the inclination to do their own research. Upon reflection over my lifetime. I will say that I have always been curious and have an investigative type mind. Perhaps, this aspect of my personality was what did it.

  Thank you all for your very thoughtful comments.
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello Iarc,

  a good post. Very logical and thought
  provoking for anyone. I do like and agree on this
  point:

  "All we can do is provide information. Some have changed radically as a result of the information provided here and at other cites. However, some will never change."

  (The last part is very true).

  Thanks, and agape J.C.MacHislopp
• 

  jurs

  hi larc,
  i've wondered why they come too. i think intially its probably curiosity. i can't figure out why some keep coming back. for example "You Know". my guess is that they are the mentally unstable ones. every hall seems to have them. they are usually pioneers and ones that rarely miss meetings but brothers and sisters try to avoid anyway..... jurs
• 

  Tina

  Hi larc and all

  Larc,I've seen from your posts that you have a wonderfully investigative,analytical and insightful personal style(and a great sense of humor too btw :>)
  Due to my borg upbringing,I didn't begin develop these until dissonance hit me hard,later in life. So what you say makes sense to me. I wish I had that impetus at 18 :> It took university to really open my eyes ,and effectively deprogram me. But,better late than never right? Thanks for the excellent topic. I've gotten much from you and all the responders! Thanks all.
  Luv,Tina
  PS. This place is a learning experience I truly love! I learn from everyone here! Such insights,perspectives,ideas,warmth and sharing!
• 

  Yadirf

  Larc,

  The title you chose for your topic, “When JWs come here ”, seems to suggest that this Forum is NOT first of all for JWs. Of course there’s no question about it that this forum is in reality an ex-JW hang-out. And that’s what’s so misleading about the heading on the left at the top of the main page.

  As most everyone that comes here knows, this is how it appears:

  And so we notice that it says “Discussion Forum for JWs”. Anyway after having clicked on your topic it occurred to me that maybe YOU hadn’t ever noticed what this site is advertised to be. Well in line with your own opening words, “Some thoughts about JWs who come here,” the poster “jurs” had this to say: “I've wondered why they [referring to JWs] come too.” Now, whose Forum is this? I think that Simon ought to receive 30 lashes for false representation. How about that Simon?

  Yadirf
• 

  larc

  Tina,

  Thank you very much for you kind words. I started the subject with some ideas, but I have gained further insight from you and the others who have contributed. Again, thank you all.

  Folks,

  I wanted to touch a little more on the subject of the anger expressed by those who are challenged. Here's my opinion and see what you think. The JWs and other strongly religious people talk about the concept of love. The Baptists, for example, are fond of saying, "Jesus loves you." At the same time, some very religious people believe that God, is a God of wrath, who dishes out retribution to the sinners. Since all of the world is of Satan, except for the choosen few, God is going decimate the infedels (sp?). I think, this mental construct creates in the believer, a mild, smiling, loving exterior with a seething, hate filled interior. When you poke the exterior, the hate inside comes spewing out. What do you think?

  Now, I am not the paragon of virtue. I can get mad and do stupid things when I am mad, but it seems to me that when a person bottles up anger, because they think it is Unchristion, but they feel it deep inside they are going to explode when provocted (sp?). Again, what do you think?