Did God know adam and eve would sin? (page 3)

MeanMrMustard

God chose not to know.

How can God choose what not to know without first knowing it in order to make the choice?

mikeflood

I've always thought, if you're created perfect (like Adam & Eve), how you could ever possibly choose wickedness?

MeanMrMustard

Where does the Bible say Adam and Eve were created perfect?

Vanderhoven7

I believe the divine evaluation of man post creation, pre-fall, was "very good"...not "excellent", not "complete", not "mature", not "perfect".

@Vanderhoven7: Yep. I rekon that's what it says. The idea that Adam and Eve were "perfect" (whatever that means - highly subjective) is a JW doctrine pulled from the ass of the early leaders. And barely anyone questions it.

Drearyweather

How can God choose what not to know without first knowing it in order to make the choice?

I think its more about the ability to know. Like having the key to someone's hotel room, but choosing not to use it to see whats happening inside the room.

Where does the Bible say Adam and Eve were created perfect?

Its more or less concluded from Paul's passages in Romans Chapter 5, where he states how sin entered the world through Adam's disobedience and death through it, and how Jesus' act of justification can mean everlasting life for all. This alludes to the point that there was a time when there was no sin, (means perfection - relative, not absolute) and hence no death.

DisgruntledFool

Did God know adam and eve would sin? That's a good question.

"I am the Divine One and there is no other God, nor anyone like me; the One telling from the beginning the finale, and from long ago the things that have not been done;" - Isaiah 46:9-10 NWT Revised 1984 (Italics mine)

peacefulpete

If Ford made a car without confidence it was safe, and that resulted in deaths, they would rightly be liable and guilty of negligent homicide.

A god making a world without confidence it was safe makes that god equally responsible. Imaging a god that could have foreseen the suffering but chose not to is guilty of reckless willful homicide.

MeanMrMustard

I think its more about the ability to know. Like having the key to someone's hotel room, but choosing not to use it to see whats happening inside the room.

I'm not sure that's a good analogy. Putting aside that God created the hotel, all the rooms, and the content of each room, if He found Himself on the outside of this "room", how does He know its the right room to look into, or even pass by? Who or what is labeling the rooms for God?

Its more or less concluded from Paul's passages in Romans Chapter 5, where he states how sin entered the world through Adam's disobedience and death through it, and how Jesus' act of justification can mean everlasting life for all. This alludes to the point that there was a time when there was no sin, (means perfection - relative, not absolute) and hence no death.

Whatever state that was, why is it "perfect" and not just "very good"?

MeanMrMustard

A god making a world without confidence it was safe makes that god equally responsible.

I think traditionally this is answered by saying that 1) God knows all things, including all "middle knowledge" - or all the permutations of all possible universes. And 2) the set of universes with free will and no sin is the empty set. Further, 3) this universe, with all its suffering, is the best feasible creation with free will. All the rest, in some way shape turn out more evil.

Did God know adam and eve would sin?

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