The Lords prayer ;Our Father prayer...."Let your name be sanctified " from Jesus.

by smiddy3 35 Replies latest jw friends

  • smiddy3

    According to Mathew 6:9 Jesus instructed his followers in, vs. 9 " You must pray, then this way "Our Father in the heavens,let your name be sanctified ....

    Which rank & file Jehovah`s Witnesses have been led to believe for the past 140 or so years is to make a personal name of God namely Jehovah known to all of the world ,because as they have so loudly professed Christendom has kept that name away from the general public.

    Not true ,Raymundus Martinus a Spanish Catholic monk of the 13th-14th Century first coined that name for God and it has been used in and on Churches throughout Christendom in the world ever since.

    True Christendoms emphasis has been on witnessing about Jesus Christ which is what the New Testament is all about,not Jehovah God, but Jesus Christ . Phillipians 2 :9-11

    In the New Testament ,( CGS ) Jesus Christ is never recorded as saying the personal name of God ever.

    " " None of the Apostles are ever recorded as saying the personal name of God ever.

    " " None of his disciples are ever recorded as saying the personal name of God ever.

    The New Testament ,Christian Greek Scriptures are all about bearing witness about Jesus Christ and after his time of bringing back people under his Kingdom will he turn then it back over to his father, a thousand years when his rule is finished.

    That is the message of the"Kingdom Interlinear of The Christian Greek Scriptures" published by the WTB&TS ,says.

  • cofty

    Good points. Jesus took a stand against misguided religious traditions and the gospels record the resulting confrontations. Where is the record of the outrage Jesus caused by using the divine name?

    If Jesus used the name in 1st century Palestine public anger would be inevitable. So either the gospel writers forgot to mention such a significant issue, or he never used it.

  • slimboyfat

    Except the evidence indicates that the divine name in the form Yaho was in common use among Jews in the first century. Jesus using this form the divine name would probably have been unremarkable, which is why there was no controversy.

    The number of scholars who support the idea that the New Testament originally used the divine name continues to grow.

    Mussies, G. (1971). The morphology of Koine Greek as used in the Apocalypse of St. John: A study in bilingualism (Vol. 27). Brill Archive.

    Howard, G. (1977). The Tetragram and the New Testament. Journal of Biblical Literature, 96(1), 63-83.

    Trobisch, D. (2000). The First Edition of the New Testament. Oxford University Press.

    Gaston, L. (2006). Paul and the Torah. Wipf and Stock Publishers.

    McRay, J. (2008). Archaeology and the New Testament. Baker Academic.

    Shaw, F. (2014). The Earliesr Non-Mystical Jewish Use of IAW. Peeters.

    If the New Testament intended to show that the divine name is no longer important, then it is odd that Jesus himself should have a name which means “Jehovah is salvation”, or that Acts should say Christians are a people taken out of the nations “for his name”, and so on. References to the divine name are legion in the NT.

  • Earnest

    In addition, when Jesus said "Our Father in the heavens,let your name be sanctified ....", what name do you think he was referring to? It certainly wasn't the name of Jesus.

  • nowwhat?

    Could it be, possibly, it would seem maybe Jesus was referring to gods reputation or his good name so to speak not his personal name.

  • blondie

    When jws would make a big deal of using god's name, I would ask, do you call your father by his first name. I don't think Jesus would either, he called him father.

  • nowwhat?

    So according to jw lore, the father is saying Jehovah really isn't my name but if these guys want to run with it. I can live with that.

  • johnamos

    Smiddy, why so obsessed with this monk?

    You said:

    [The name Jehovah was unheard of before the 13th Century simply because no one beforehand had added vowels to those four Hebrew consonants representing Gods name ….And then comes along a Spanish Catholic Monk of the 13th Century that adds vowels to those 4 Hebrew consonants and he comes up with the name Jehovah.]


    [Raymundus Martinus a Spanish Catholic monk of the 13th-14th Century first coined that name for God and it has been used in and on Churches throughout Christendom in the world ever since.]

    You never answered the following questions:

    Do you agree that the Jews never stopped pronouncing the following 3 words in the Scriptures?

    3050. Yah

    3470. Ysha'yah

    3092. Yehoshaphat

    Do you agree that those 3 words written in Hebrew are consonants only and the vowels there are inserted based on how they would pronounce those words?




    Do you agree that a Hebrew speaking person would have no dispute about those 3 Hebrew words when it comes to spelling and pronouncing them in English the way they are written in those Scriptures?




    Did the Spanish Catholic Monk of the 13th Century have anything to do with the vowels used in those 3 Hebrew words?

    And you say that the CGS never recorded ‘the personal name of God ever”.

    You can’t make that claim. You can say that the oldest copies on hand of the CGS do not have it recorded but you can’t be certain that the original and the copies of those that existed before the oldest ones on hand, did not have it recorded.

    You can turn that around on me and claim that I can’t claim that it was recorded in the original and copies that did exist prior to the ones now on hand. But I will say this, that any reasonable person can conclude that in the CGS where there is quoting from the Hebrew Scriptures, verses that do contain the YHVH, that Jesus and his apostles would have said the personal name of God as it was written in those verses.

    In your own words, what does the name Jehoshua mean?

  • waton

    Jesus was not saying that they should spout the name, but that he , the father, would sanctify it. to keep it unsoiled (By keeping it not linked to prophesies that were bound to fail, for example). Jesus said that The father had, and would sanctify His name.

    There are so many names that start with "J" in the bible, how can you miss it ?. Now we have J - worg.

    May be the message was " Cool it !"

    not endorsing just observing.

  • Giordano

    Note the substantiating comments of the Encyclopedia Americana regarding The Letter J: Source...

    It is one of the few permanent additions to those alphabets, made in medieval or modern times. More exactly, it was not an addition, but a differentiation from an existing letter, i, which in Latin, besides being a vowel (as in index), had also the consonantal value of "Y" (as in maior, pronounced "mayor").

    At a later stage, the symbol "J" was used for distinctive purposes, particularly when the "I" had to be written initially (or in conjunction with another "I"). Either symbol used initially generally had the consonantal sound of "Y" (as in year) so that the Latin pronunciation of either Ianuarius or Januarius was as though the spelling was "Yanuarius." While in some words of Hebrew and other origin (such as Hallelujah or Junker), "J" has the phonetic value of "Y."

    The J Develops

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