Why the Catholic Church outlast Jehovah's Witnesses

by no-zombie 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • joe134cd

    Just a side point. Coincidentally 6 years after I left the JW religion, I converted to the catholic faith, and got baptised in it this last Easter. I will also be giving my first Bible reading at mass this next coming Sunday. While I realise the Catholic Church isn’t perfect and I don’t accept all the offical teachings of the church. I do feel they are trying to openly right the wrongs of the past. Weather this be by choice or outside pressure is another topic. I think the thing that keeps me going back every Sunday, is communion, and how the idea of partaking of the bread and wine drives home the point of Christ selflessly dying for humanity. Something that I never felt as a JW. I can now understand (to a point) when people would mistakenly say to me in FS that JWs don’t believe in Jesus.

    The point you raise about the rise of the American religions been a result of protest of the more conventional church ideas. I could agree with this to a point. What we must remember around this time is people were very superstitious e.g buried treasure been located by looking at a stone inside a hat. Real crazy quackery. Something that allowed the likes the Bible students ideas of the pyramids been Gods stone witness to flourish. I think may of the issues that have come back to bite these American religions has been the result of the craziness of the ideas of their founders. Why??? Because they were a result of the thinking of the time in which they developed e.g people who lived on the moon who looked like quakers. We can now say with the advancement of science that anyone living on the moon is nonsense, but back in the 1800s this was fully accepted as been revelation from God.

    Along with people wondering the origins of the American Indians (of which Mr Smith had the answer to) people were also speculating about Christ’s return ( Mr Miller). Like I said these religions have been built on the thinking’s of 19 century ideology that has now come back to bite them. I would invite anybody here who thinks the JW religion is just a total load of nonsense to go and start looking into the Mormon religion. The foundations and doctrine of the Mormon church would leave the JWs in the dust.

    I agree that when times are better people become less God fearing. Many JWs would probably agree to. I’m guessing that would be the reason why when asking a JW if the would choose to live in 2019 or 1719 many would choose to live in the present. Why? Because we lead better, longer and more fulfilled lives. Something that goes totally against Jw ideology, because as we get closer to end of the world and Satan is on the rampage from the time of 1914. Surly any God fearing jw would choose to live in the 1700s when there would of been less critical times hard to deal with, and pangs of distress. Yes you will never find an atheist in the trenches. This is something I have to remind myself constantly, that it is in times when things are going well and prosperity that I really need to give thanks and praise to my Heavenly Father. Amen

  • slimboyfat

    Very interesting post, joe134cd 👍

  • smiddy3

    When you walk into a Catholic church there is a sense of solemness ,reverence ,spirituality ,piousness ? and that you are in a house of GOD to worship him.

    I think the same could be said of walking into a Church of England place of worship (Anglican )

    You walk into a Kingdom Hall and its much the same as walking into a supermarket and lacks any sense of a holy place of worship to GOD.

  • Olig

    Exactly, churches in general have a sense of huge grandeur! Every time I go to York I am always amazed at the sheer scale of York minster.

    KHs are just walls in which to nail the JW.org logo to.

    With regards to the comment about after WWIII. I agree with that, after all - there are no drowning atheists!

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    One reason the Roman Catholic Church will outlive the JW org has to do with their respective origins.

    The RCC had contrived a link with Peter and therefore claim divine approval according to the scriptures which they themselves made sacred (clever trick!) In doing so they are so wealthy they have become an independent nation called Vatican City with a monarchical head of state, the Pope.

    The JW org on the other hand, which has had to periodically change its name and doctrines, have to constantly disown their origins. Systematically they have had to disinherit their former beliefs and leaders which is like periodically cutting off one's own feet!

    Russell distanced himself from the date-setting Miller as well as the others who started the Watchtower with him in 1879. Russell had promised a paradise on Earth by 1914, living just long enough to see his hopes dashed. Then Rutherford taking hold of the reins of glory built up by Russell's reputation, increased the JW empire on sales of dire books. He dismissed Russell's failed prophecies with failed prophecies of his own--such as Armageddon by 1925 and "Millions now living will never die". Another go-getter Knorr replaced him with his personal theologian Fred Franz proclaiming 1975 and the generation which saw 1914 would see Armageddon. All dud fireworks. Now Fred Franzian religion is wrong; type/antitype was all hooey. The latest attempt at running the Watchtower cult relies on wearing blinkers, not thinking too hard and obeying even if you don't know why you're doing it.

    Unlike the RC Church, the JW religion does not have a solid foundation, it is on a conveyor belt, ripping and fraying at the edges, out of date and breaking down.

    When you have to sell of a lot of your property assets in a business, you know your time is up.

  • Lost in the fog
    Lost in the fog

    Joe134cd, a most interesting post, thank you.

    I have long been attracted to the Roman Catholic Church after reading books by Thomas Merton and watching EWTN in the past. Although I don't think I could embrace the Trinity doctrine....

    The WTS says that the troubles of this world from 1914 came about because Satan was cast down from heaven in that year. I was always at a loss to explain the number of wars and massacres that took place prior to 1914, who was to blame? just evil people?

    I enjoy visiting Anglican and Catholic churches because of their sense of sacred space and glory to God. I'm really glad to hear that you have found a home Joe in the RCC, I wish I could find somewhere else to go to for a sacred community, but I don't know if I can ever trust any religion again.

  • blondie

    LITF, the WTS will just say, Satan caused those, but the problems he causes now are more frequent and destructive because he knows his time is short. The WTS always have a way to speak out of both sides of their mouths. The WTS neglects to say that Russell taught that the 1914 was the end (not the beginning). After Russell died in 1916 and no sign of the end he described, Rutherford scrambled to "adjust" the doctrine to 1914 being the beginning.

    "The WTS says that the troubles of this world from 1914 came about because Satan was cast down from heaven in that year. I was always at a loss to explain the number of wars and massacres that took place prior to 1914, who was to blame? just evil people?"

  • smiddy3

    The WTS says that the troubles of this world from 1914 came about because Satan was cast down from heaven in that year.

    ? What the hell does that mean ?

    Are they trying to say that satan was confined to heaven from the deception of Eve in Eden ? up until 1914 ?

    Gen 3: Satan on the earth tempting Eve.

    Job : 1; 7 satan was roving about in the earth and walking about in it.

    1 Peter 5 : 8 "the devil walks about like a roaring lion seeking to devour someone" on earth.

    So according to those scriptures alone satan has always had access to the earth influencing people long before the year 1914

  • slimboyfat

    Another one smiddy3: how come Jesus taught his followers to pray for God’s will to be done “on earth as it is in heaven” if Satan still lived in heaven and would only be thrown out of heaven in 1914? Is there an official Watchtower answer to that problem?

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    Good points Smiddy and SBF but why would JC teach his followers to pray for God's will to be done on Earth? Did God have a bad memory and need reminding or does he just like his subjects to grovel and implore him to do things?

    Wouldn't a real almighty God carry out his will, willy-nilly?

    Second point: the kingdom of heaven was categorically coming in full glory in the lifetime of Jesus' listeners as he foretold in Mark 9;1 so clearly 1914 had no significance for Jesus nor was there any question or hint of failure or need for a new date.

    Christianity was ever an idiotic and superstitious cult.

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