Were the life spans of the patriarchs just an allegory of astronomical cycles?

by was a new boy 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Re. my last post on the previous page…

    In fact, I’ve long suspected this was the primary factor in the Medieval Church’s historic antisemitism.

    They wanted to present all the books of the Bible as a single throughline historical narrative for authoritative and cosmological reasons…

    …but if the common folk learned that the actual individuals who wrote the books didn’t necessarily view them as set-in-stone fact, that authority and cosmology would be too deeply called into question.

    Thus, the demonization of the descendants of the actual individuals who wrote the books…

    …after all, no one is gonna ask scholarly questions or discuss history and theology with people they’re persecuting and ostracizing.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    "KalebOutWest - “…Jews have never believed this information was ever literal…”

    Vidiot said: "Super important, and, IMO, can never be repeated enough…

    that the people originally responsible for the Bible’s very existence viewed it as metaphor."


    Yeah, you can repeat a lie as much as you want, but it doesn't make it true.


    God's Word is true. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to, but you can't change that it's true just by repeating falsehoods.


    Jesus is God's Son. He was Jewish. Paul, Peter, John, etc, were Jewish. They believed it to be literal.


    Archaeology supports the Bible accounts. (My degree is in archaeology, so I'm not going on just rehashed WTBT$ publications.)

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Pretty sure Jesus taught almost exclusively using parables.

    Also known as allegories. Or metaphors.

    I think that’s the point that all-or-nothing Biblical literalists fail to grasp (accidentally or otherwise)…

    …that a symbolic narrative can have just as much value as theological “Truth” as a set-in-stone fact. More so, even, in some cases.

    Take Aesop’s fables for example… no one in their right mind insists those stories are literal, but no one dismisses them as worthless, either.

    Why?

    Because they have profound value and insight into the human condition.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt
    "…after all, no one is gonna discuss theology or history or ask scholarly questions with people they’re persecuting and ostracizing."


    You mean, like how the Sanhedrin and the Pharisees and scribes kept asking Jesus questions? Like how "scribe" types today keep asking "questions" that they really don't want the answers to because they're just looking to defend their own bad actions? Yeah, that never happens.🙄

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    "Pretty sure Jesus taught almost exclusively using parables.

    Also known as allegories. Or metaphors."


    Yeah, right, that whole thing about showing love to your neighbor must have been a parable.🙄Same about the adultery thing.😜What was your name again?

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Really, by that logic, insisting that the Bible be viewed as set-in-stone literal with no room for anything else does a disservice to it and everyone who contributed to its existence.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot
    EasyPrompt - Yeah, right, that whole thing about showing love to your neighbor must have been a parable…”

    Pretty sure he used the parable of the “Good Samaritan” to teach that very lesson.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt
    "Pretty sure he used the parable of the “Good Samaritan” to teach that very lesson."


    You are right, and as you know he also said quite straightforwardly (on other occasions not in parable form) to show love for God and for others.


    "Really, by that logic, insisting that the Bible be viewed as set-in-stone literal with no room for anything else does a disservice to it and everyone who contributed to its existence."


    By the same token, anyone that insists the Bible be viewed as completely allegorical with no room for anything else also does it and everyone who contributed to its existence a disservice.


    @Vidiot, I know you are wise enough to know that Jesus did not mean every word he spoke as a parable. What are you afraid of as regards the things that are literal in the Bible? A true scientist/logician/wise person goes where the evidence leads, even if it is not what is popular. So what if men can live hundreds of years? What do you have to lose by acknowledging the truth? A better question would be, what do you have to gain?


    Here is something Jesus said that is not a parable...


    John 4:22-26


    "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”


    "The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·siʹah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.”


    "Jesus said to her: “I am he, the one speaking to you.""


    (When Jesus was speaking in parables, it was clear by the context. When he was speaking straight, it was clear by the context. The words in the Genesis account regarding the lives of the patriarchs are not allegorical. It is clear by the context.)

  • KalebOutWest
    KalebOutWest
    EasyPrompt - My degree is in archaeology.

    I just stopped by to see how things are doing. This is awesome news! While my degree is in film production my minor is in--guess what? Archaeology! I went to Sonia & Marco Adler. Where did you attend?

    This means you know my mother tongue--Which is cool, because, while I don't have time to debate, you can show us all how you read Hebrew as I study the liturgy for this year's Days of Awe services as I go through the books of the Machzor.

    You also would know Aramaic too, which is great, so you could help me with the Kol Nidre prayer for Yom Kippur in 11 days. No one can get a degree in archaeology without being able to read Hebrew and Aramaic, right? You likely know cuneiform maybe?

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot
    EasyPrompt - By the same token, anyone that insists the Bible be viewed as completely allegorical with no room for anything else also does it and everyone who contributed to its existence a disservice.”

    Good thing I haven’t actually done that, then.

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