Active JW's: If asked, can you explain/defend this belief?

by The Fall Guy 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  smiddy3

  If I remember correctly newsheep it was in a court of law that they claimed no specific individual was identified as a faithful and discreet slave member ,that it was only in fact a "Theocratic Arrangement" when certain members came together to decide on matters of belief.

  A court case brought on by Steven Upthank against the WTB&TS in the State of Victoria in Morwell .Australia.

  This took place just a few years ago.

  You may want to look at jwleaks to find the full story

  As an interesting point from my point of view is that as you say it was a female lawyer that was defending the organization in this case in a court of law .

  Yet female Jehovah`s Witnesses have no place in any organizational structure in the religion ? But they can do so in a secular court of law in the land obviously.?
• 

  The Fall Guy

  @SoundofTruth - Questions are not unfair - answers which conceal truths are unfair, and that is what the org does with its literature.

  @ Nitty Gritty - Par. 2 says this - "It is vital that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel."

  When God wanted people to be clearly identified as His representatives, they were! The Bible gives ample warnings about "wolves in sheep's clothing" and how to spot them;

  (Deuteronomy 18:21, 22) However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?” When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’

  Christians were instructed to test the teachings they were being given, (1 John 4:1) but as we both know, as an active JW, cannot question or disagree with anything the literature says - due to fear of the consequences.

  When I was a zealous JW no one could challenge or weaken my faith, because I was a JW and had "the truth."

  An offer to you both: PM me and I'll share some important Bible questions with you - and I'd like to hear your answers - questions which no JW can raise without being dragged into the elders' room and accused of being spiritually weak or apostate.

  Interestingly, when I asked a trolley elder one of these questions, his reply was, "I don't want to argue with you. You can write to our Branch with any questions."

  He couldn't/wouldn't answer the question in front of the young M.S. next to him. Fear of the truth!
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Recognizing Jesus Christ is important but cannot save you without the vital recognition of the FDS in New York.

  Jesus must take second place to the GB.
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  Crazyguy

  There’s scriptures in the Bible that shows clearly that Jesus would pick and organization to represent his wishes in 1919. Unfortunately those evil apostates took that book out of the Bible about the same time the Apocryphal books were taken out. If my memory serves me well the name of the book was, 1 Bullshit and it’s in chapter 6 starting in verse 66 where it is explained in detail.
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  Nitty-Gritty

  @ The Fall Guy
  

  @ Nitty Gritty - Par. 2 says this - "It is vital that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel."

  - And the scripture quoted to support that idea was Matt 4:4 "....‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah’s mouth.’ meaning the Bible. And the other is John 17:3- Get to know God....again through the Bible.
  

  As far as I know, rarely did God instruct anyone personally, it was always through either an angel, a prophet, or some other person. The Bible is how God speaks to humans now. The FDS is supposed to "feed" by means of the Bible, not invent anything new separate from the Bible. As long as the Bible is at the core of that food then this is sufficient. If someone doesn't agree with how the FDS interpret the Bible, and they prefer the interpretation of some other religion, then that is their choice to make of course.

  "Christians were instructed to test the teachings they were being given, (1 John 4:1) but as we both know, as an active JW, cannot question or disagree with anything the literature says - due to fear of the consequences".

  Yes. This is the prerogative of everyone and anyone who studies the Bible with anyone, including with JWs. Their subsequent baptism (into any religion) confirms that the person is in agreement with those teachings. If they have agreed without testing the teachings then they have not listened to those instructions have they? Logically, the time for questioning is before, not after commitment. For whatever religion. So if down the road they suddenly find for whatever reason they no longer agree with those teachings why bother questioning at that point? With JWs, the logical option is to quit associating with the congregation. I don't know why folks like you find it so hard. If I don't like a club I leave the club. There are plenty of "faders" who still hang out with family and close friends but no longer go to meetings.
  
• 

  Diogenesister

  As an interesting point from my point of view is that as you say it was a female lawyer that was defending the organization in this case in a court of law .

  Yes SMIDDY3 it was a FEMALE lawyer in the Victoria court case who announced the biggest change to Watchtower doctrine since Rutherford “Millions” speech. She was the one that announced the FDS is ONLY the governing body when they meet and as you said only a “theocratic arrangement” LoL

  All Thanks to Steven Upthank.
  
  
• 

  neat blue dog

  Nitty Gritty:

  Comparing JWs to 'leaving a club' is a weak comparison and you know it. A club won't slander you to your friends and family, preventing them from speaking to you on threat of death. Haven't you read that 2009 WT magazine that said 'no one should be forced to choose between beliefs and family'? Also, what are you doing here speaking to apostates, directly defying the GB's order to all good JWs? You're obviously having doubts and are on your way out, but fighting it. I understand, I was there.
• 

  smiddy3

  Some interesting facts:

  1. In 1919 the Jehovah`s Witness religion didn`t exist Russell and his peers were known as The International Bible Students Association, I.B.S.A. and not Jehovah`s Witnesses

  2.If Jesus did in fact appoint THEM over all their belongings as the Faithful & Discreet Slave Class because of what they believed and taught back then in 1919.

  3.J.F.Rutherford ,usurped the I.B.S.A. and morphed them into the religion of Jehovah`s Witnesses that he created.

  4.Jesus today would reject and nullify their claim to be the F&D.S.C. simply because they no longer teach or believe anything today as to what they taught and believed back in 1919.

  5.They can`t have it both ways either they were appointed as the F&D.S.C. in 1919 for what they taught and believed back then

  or

  Jesus no longer views them as the F&D.S.C. because they have turned their back on those teachings of 1919 and rejected them.
• 

  carla

  I call b.s. on this, " Logically, the time for questioning is before, "! - we are well aware that jw's are not truthful with people they are attempting to indoctrinate (a study). jw's do not reveal all the stupid rules and regulations which are not the least bit biblical. I know for a fact the my jw was told he must just accept what he was being told and he would understand it better once he was baptized. The push to become baptized was extreme.

  One of the very first things a jw told my soon to be jw was that people would try to dissuade him from joining in the first place and that was because all of us (non jw's) were filled with satan and evil. Nice huh? your wife, children and family are all filled with satan because they reject an ungodly so called religion run by a bunch of arrogant asses in NY. Those same arrogant asses put themselves above Christ Himself passing judgement upon any who dare oppose or question them and their made up doctrines.

  B.S. here too! - " I don't know why folks like you find it so hard. If I don't like a club I leave the club."- it only cults that do not allow people to leave gracefully with no repercussions like losing your parents, children, siblings and friends. Some even lose their homes and employment. jw's are an insidious cult not merely a 'club'.
• 

  Finkelstein

  Rutherford's proclamation back in 1919 that the IBSA or his organization was chosen by god was just an intentional self validation to the members of the IBSA and of course to reconfirm his own stature and position of the organization .

  We now know that they were not true faithful adherents to preaching the Gospel as Jesus set out but rather preaching a tainted commercialized version intently to enhance literature proliferation.

  Ironically both Rutherford and Russell acted in apostasy against Jesus instructions for preaching his Gospel of his new Kingdom.

  Nevertheless these men built a framework of power and control toward themselves posing as the pretentious faithful slave or god's chosen earthly organization by their own proclamation.