I had a somewhat paranormal experience 2 days ago, but I think science is just light years behind on this.....

by Bad_Wolf 30 Replies latest jw experiences

  • RubaDub

    Many people like Uri Geller have made millions off of people who are naive and want to believe when he IMO is a fraud and con man.

    phoenixrising ...

    Yes, I remember Geller. I think he was a fraud also.

    But I thought Kreskin was far more believable and not just in it for the money he could make.

    On his TV Show, the Amazing Kreskin, he really did show how he performed his acts of mentalism and illusions that made people, as myself, in disbelief of how he could perform such mental acts and analyze ones psyche.

    I was a kid at the time, but watching him pull someone randomly from the audience, ask a few questions, and then understand the person's life history, problems and desires definitely shocked me.

    I wasn't sure if it was supernatural or something but it was really great to watch how he could look at a person and know who they were. If they shuffled a deck of cards and he held one to his head, he could tell exactly what the card was.

    The guy knew his stuff.

  • DesirousOfChange

    I think there are things we don't quite comprehend. As JW's we were psyched in on "paranormal" (demons). For example "water witching". It works. I don't think it's demons. But WTF is it?

    My wife is a sound sleeper. Phones don't always wake her. But one night she sat up and couldn't sleep. Something was wrong. She went in and checks on the kids and the 4 year old had a huge wad of gum in his mouth.

    Coincidence? Bullshit.

  • Fr.RAS

    Worth noting in the area is "Erasing Death: The Science that is Rewriting the Boundaries Between Life and Death" by Sam Parnia, MD. He is a leading expert on cardiac arrest resuscitation and the scientific study of death, near death experience. Most intriguing.

  • slimboyfat

    The trouble with the “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” mantra is who gets to decide what is an extraordinary claim?

    For example, the claim that consciousness arose by itself in a material universe for no reason, and there is no intelligent agent behind any of it, sounds like a pretty extraordinary claim to many people! Where is the evidence this is even possible? Yet some will insist that this is a perfectly ordinary way to understand existence and in fact insist that the burden of proof should be on others to demonstrate this is not the case.

    Existence and consciousness are deeply mysterious whatever way you look at them. Why should any collection of atoms and molecules ever combine to have a sense of themselves as a subject in the universe? Or why should there even be matter and fundamental laws of nature to begin with? It is a totally miraculous situation we are in whatever your explanation. Once the enormity of this miracle Is appreciated it becomes somewhat more difficult to dismiss other “miracles” out of hand.

    For example a materialist may say that the idea of resurrection is totally fantasy. But stop for a minute to consider what this claim involves. It means saying that the material universe arose without intervention from an intelligent agent and that matter in that universe somehow arranged itself to become conscious beings that can understand the universe around them. This is to be accepted as a perfectly rational story of how we got here. Yet the idea that in the same universe such conscious agents could be revived a second time by a supreme intelligent agent, that is described as an extraordinary claim that demands extraordinary evidence.

    You can’t win this argument by claiming the story from the other side is “extraordinary”. Whether we got here by a supreme intelligence, or whether we somehow arose as subjective agents all by ourselves, frankly both propositions are extraordinary. We live in a miraculous universe whatever way we look at it. So when it comes down to it, materialists are not denying miracles. They are insisting that we accept their version of a miracle—conscious agents arising from nothing for no reason—to the exclusion of other miracles. They are free to do this, but don’t claim it’s more rational or less miraculous than other explanations. Everyone believes in miracles one way or another.

  • cofty

    Dawkin's book 'Unweaving the rainbow' is a very useful investigation of these sort of issues.

    When you really start digging into events like this they invariably become less significant the more facts you establish. For example how wide are you willing to spread the net of probability? If your dream happened a day before a parent dies, two days, two weeks, a month? Does the parent have to die to fulfil the premonition or just have a worrying incident? How worrying exactly?

    How many tens of thousands will dream about the demise of their elderly parents this evening? What percentage will come true - or slightly true if we include strokes, heart attacks and accidents that don't result in immediate death?

    What about the text? During the crisis and the call for an ambulance did you contact any other family members? Is it possible one of them contacted your dad but for reasons of family politics didn't want to say so?

    However odd things may seem even amazing coincidences are infinitely then time going in reverse and consciousness coming back from the future.

    Susan Blackmore spent half her career trying to find a scientific basis for supernatural claims. She eventually gave up when every single incident turned out to be be misremembered, exaggerated or just plain false.

    Occam's Razor!

  • Betheliesalot

    Yesterday, I had a dream about one of my wife's relative and her husband, that they had committed murder suicide. It was so real, I had to tell my spouse, just in case something happened to them that I could say "see it did happen". Well this afternoon my wife got a call from this relative and she called to tell us that her father was just taken to the hospital with breathing difficulty and tested positive for Covid. She hasn't called in months, so just seemed coincidental that see called after I had told my wife about the dream of her. My pimi spouse mentioned that this was too much to be coincidental, however the facts were wrong, but something in her family did happen. Im not sure what to make of it, but there it is....

  • cofty

    Bethelliesalot - This perfectly illustrates my point. See how wide you have thrown your net!

    It goes from relative committing murder/suicide to father of relative getting sick. If people want to see magic they will find it anywhere.

  • truth_b_known

    Atheist advocate and YouTube personality Aaron Ra made a compelling argument when he told theists "You don't know - you believe!"

    The only honest answer to the paranormal is "I don't know" until there is evidence to prove it. That is true of just about everything. Just like with the debate between theists and atheists on whether there is or is not a god/gods the questions that must also be answered are -

    As a theist who believes in a god/gods, what evidence would it take for you to accept atheism?

    As an atheist who does not believe in a god/gods, what evidence would it take for you to accept there is a god or gods?

    Unfortunately many people will refuse to change their beliefs regardless of the evidence provided. What we find in the arena of the paranormal is that non-believers will often state "I refuse to believe because their must be evidence that provides a reasonable explanation."

    Albert Einstein's "spooky action at a distance" or quantum entanglement is an interesting possibility to explain some paranormal experiences. I recently listened to a program on NPR dealing with Einstein's theories on time travel. Einstein theorized that time and space are connected. If you could fold space back onto itself you can travel back in time. So, what if premonitions are memories being transmitted back to ourselves?

  • Vidiot
    truth_b_known - "...So, what if premonitions are memories being transmitted back to ourselves?"

    I say don't close the book on possibilities like that.

    Quantum physics does some seriously weird-ass shit...

    ...why wouldn't it occasionally manifest itself at the macro level?

  • Bad_Wolf

    I found this recently. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiecartereurope/2020/05/21/has-nasa-found-a-parallel-universe-where-time-flows-backwards-the-truth-behind-the-headlines/#18d5d54f646d

    If there is an identical universe with time flowing backwards, then everything about our future has already happened. If there was some kind of interchange in which memories or events of this universe got into our minds. Then it would get crazy, if we changed it, then it would probably spawn another universe with the future of that one already happened.

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