An example of inconsistency in Watchtower literalism....ABSTAIN FROM BLOOD

by logansrun 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    The practice of blood-transfusion refusel by JWs has been a topic long discussed among even the public. I don't feel I have much of anything new to add to the arguments against such an extreme policy, but I will give "my take" on it.

    When asked to defend their position on blood, JWs will most often quote Acts 15:20, 29 where the words "abstain from...blood" are used. The JWs will state that this is a very clear pronouncement and that it's a "case-closed" argument. Is it?

    I must admit, at first glance their reasoning seems sound. "That's what the Bible says clear and simple" would appear to be the case. But, as with many matters of controversy, the case is not nearly as "black and white" as the JWs would like to think.

    Much of the JWs logic rests on their very literal interpretation of "abstain from...blood." Most Christians and Jews, as far as I know, believe that this Biblical statement applies solely to eating blood, not life-saving transfusions. (Some would go further that this injunction only applies to the 1st century Christians living in a Greco-Judaic world).

    But the Bible doesn't say "abstain from eating blood" it simply says "abstain from blood." The interpretation that the scriptures really mean digestion of blood hinges on looking at the matter in context both scripturally and logically. And this is what most Christians and Jews do.

    "No, no, no" say the JWs. "That's taking liberties with the scriptures." Maybe so. But do the JWs also take such exegetical liberties, perhaps on other matters? Yes they most certainly do. Let me give two examples.

    The JWs take a non-literal view of the "days" in the creation account in Genesis. They believe that these "days" actually are thousands of years in length. But, the Bible doesn't say that. It says "days" -- even to go so far as to say that each one had "an evening and a morning." In fact, many Christians scoff at the JWs liberal view of the "days" of Genesis. If a person who was wholly unacquainted with the Bible were to read through Genesis on his own I don't think there is any way that they would be led to believe the "days" are anything but literal 24-hour periods. The clearest, most literal reading of Genesis would force one to conclude this.

    But, the JWs interpret it differently. "The Bible doesn't really mean that" is basically what they say. "It really means 'thousands of years.'" So why not say that the Bible doesn't really mean "abstain from all blood" but simply "abstain from eating blood"? The JWs take liberties in one passage yet strict literalism in the other. It would seem that the inertia of organizational tradition accounts for this

    Another, even more forceful example is the passage found at Romans 8:14. It says there, quite clearly: "For all who are led by God's spirit, these are God's sons." Further reading in context will show that being one of God's "sons" means a heavenly reward. But, if that is the case, it would clearly appear that whoever is led by God's spirit -- the same spirit which is necessary to have to abstain from the desires of the flesh in verse 13 -- is going to heaven. Of course, the JWs cannot have this. Their exegetical tradition will not tolerate it. So, they must take some interpretive liberalities with this most problematic verse. How do they do that?

    Reasoning From The Scriptures page 164 paragraph 3 gives the JW way of getting around this. After citing the scripture in Romans the book states:

    "At the time this was written it was true that all who were led by God's spirit were God's sons whose hope was that they would be glorified with Christ. But this has not always been true."

    The book then goes on to talk about John the Baptiser not going to heaven as they understand Matthew 11:11 -- itself a debateable interpretation...I will now continue the quotation:

    "So, too, after the gathering of the heirs of the heavenly Kingdom there would be others who would serve God...yet not share in heavenly glory."

    All right, if you missed it -- and it's easy to miss as the JWs tend to obfuscate this point -- the JWs say that Romans 8:14 does not really mean that all who are led by God's spirit are his "sons." No! That verse only applies to the annointed. So why doesn't the verse say "Everyone at this time who has God's spirit are his sons"? That would eliminate any confusion, right? But even the JWs are not that bold to actually translate this passage like that.

    It stands to reason tha the clearest and least obscure way of understanding Romans 8:14 is to believe literally what it says plainly: everyone who has God's spirit is his son and will go to heaven. The JWs must add an interpretive layer onto this verse -- liberalizing it, if you will -- to make it "fit" their theological paradigm.

    So, now the point I am trying to make: If the JWs are willing to take interpretive liberalities with the Genesis "days" and Romans 8:14 -- and there are countless other examples -- why not Acts 15:20,29? Is this not an inconsistency in their exegetical pattern? I will let the reader decide.

    Bradley

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    Yo Beerad

    Another question might be - "If God, the Creator, allows mother & baby, and baby & baby in some twin cases, to share blood - even when the blood types are different - and for nourishment - why would outside the womb (if abortion is wrong) would you deny a life saving procedure?

    AND

    during the time after the "last supper" where the apostles consumed what Jesus called his body and his blood, no doubt in a naive reproduction of the "memorial" some might have reverted to OT sacrifices and actually drank blood. This the apostles would definitely WARN AGAINST. During this time there were sects that used blood - why isn't there ever any mention of this OBVIOUS CONTEXT!!!!

    WILL

  • TD
    TD

    Good points Bradley. Another example can be seen in the fact that no JW accepts the phrase, "...and the Word was God" at face value.

    When asked to defend their position on blood, JWs will most often quote Acts 15:20, 29 where the words "abstain from...blood" are used. The JWs will state that this is a very clear pronouncement and that it's a "case-closed" argument. Is it?

    The answer here is "No" and the conversation doesn't really even need to move beyond this fact

    Invoking a partial predicate as an independent construction and passing it off as a statement of complete thought is not, strictly speaking, grammatical. It's actually a fairly good example of the type of semantic legerdemain that Witness policy-makers appear to be so fond of.

    If any JW wants to argue with you about this, say, "Look. I can state what it means to 'Abstain from fornication' as a simple finite negative. It means 'Do not fornicate.' Can YOU do the same with the blood abstention? Let's hear it!"

    Of course, this is impossible. "Abstain from blood" means "Do Not ------ WHAT?

    Unlike "Fornication," "Blood" is NOT the name of a finite ACT. It is the name of an OBJECT and therefore does not have a verb form. There is a big difference at work here. In order to state the blood abstention as a simple finite negative, the JW will be forced to insert a verb or verb phrase, like "taking in" or "misusing" or possibly even "using."

    At the point in the conversation when this happens ---and it always does--- you soundly chastise the JW for the utter disrespect he or she has shown God's word by embroidering the text with the words of imperfect humans in order to alter its meaning. None of their interpolations are supported by the context of the Decree, which dealt with the question of whether Gentile converts to Christianity needed to be circumcised and follow the Law.

  • shotgun
    shotgun

    I whole heartedly Agree Good points Bradley

    I also like the example of Saul's men who knowingly committed the sin of eating blood in order to save their lives and all Saul did was offer a sacrafice to Jehovah...no punishment handed out. In fact at the time it was considered more serious that during the battle Jonathan had eaten honey disobeying the Kings decree to not eat until the battle was over. This mistake by Jonathan almost cost him his life the eating of blood is glossed over with little importance in comparison.

    Shotgun

  • rocketman
    rocketman

    Here's a verse that I have often felt comes under the category that Bradley mentions:

    1 Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a physcial body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one".

    Like in Romans 8:14, the jws must take some liberty with the text and context, applying it only to the 144,000. Yet, the verse does not say "in some cases there is a spiritual one". It says "If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one". Thus liberty in interpretation is taken, and jws apply it only to a certain group.

    Of course, the jws get around this by citing other verses and their overall understanding of the Bible and the resurrection. And so be it. But again, the verse itself seems to allow for no latitude, otherwise, one might think Paul would have written in such a way to indicate a different conclusion.

  • link
    link

    There are many examples where they do not do things "according to the book"And they will offer many spurious reasons for not doing so.

    Mat 28:18-20 reads :

    "And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU".

    But JW’s put their own spin on this and are baptised into "Gods spirit directed organisation" not in His name.

    They put their own spin on verse twenty also.

    link

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    There are some good points here. Personally, I feel that the biggest flaw in the blood doctrine deals with the concept of legal exceptions.

    For example, the Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill". The prohibition on murder is the most serious law in the secular legal system as well as in the Bible. Yet, both the Bible and the secular law allow for an exception. You are allowed to kill in self defense.

    In other words, you are not expected to uphold the law against murder if your life is at stake. So, why would anyone uphold the law against blood at the expense of their life?

    It makes no sense. No one would hesitate to exceed the speed limit if they were rushing to the hospital - laws have exceptions. It is not just common sense. It is the law.

    Upholding a minor dietary prohibition at the expense of your life is stupid and unbalanced.

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Running Man,

    That's really not an exception...the Commandment should read (and does in the Hebrew) You shall not commit Murder. Murder is far different from "killing." Murder involves the unjust taking of a human life.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    I love TD's grammatical descriptions and I heartily agree, If I understand it correctly.

    I remember looking at Acts 15 ,20 when I was active and I could see then that it was ambiguous as what facet of "Blood" one had to absttain from.

    I did note also though the previous phrase to abstain from "What is strangled". So , I reasoned that must refer to meat not properly bled, therefore we are talking about not consuming it into ones body

    Of course that is a long way away from the modern medical use of blood..

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    TD,

    Am I understanding you correctly if I were to say that if the JWs literally apply the command to 'abstain from blood' they would need to not even touch blood or have anything whatsoever to do with it -- that is the object, blood, would be taboo?

    rocketman,

    Good point about the "spiritual body." Yes, it does seem Paul preached dualism.

    Bradley

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