God kills a heavenly being he calls his son as sacrifice because some girl then a boy eat an apple. Would you do that? Would you kill one of your kids because the nieghbor did something wrong? Does this make any sense at all. Really think about it, it was a test and Eve failed , jesus was then tempted three times by Satan and he passed the test with flying colors, but is still killed, right! Makes all the sense in the world!
What if the crucifixion never took place..
by Jayk 29 Replies latest watchtower bible
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venus
Crazyguy,
That's an interesting point (Jesus passed test, was still killed).
All religious stories depicts Cause and Effect. Genesis 1 says mankind was created, and they remained perfect for some time. Then mankind turned egoistic and paradise is lost. This is symbolised through one man, Adam, who attached himself to "fruits of a tree," produce of creation, or turned materialistic.
Adam was mistaken as one man by apostle Paul, hence he thought one perfect man could regain what is lost, hence the story of Jesus's ransom sacrifice.
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knowsnothing1
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
No scholar worth their salt denies a man called Jesus was crucified over 2000 years ago under Pontius Pilate. You can disagree that he was a Divine being, you can disagree that he performed miracles, but you cannot deny that he was crucified.
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punkofnice
Crazyguy - I agree with you. I used to believe all this stuff. Now I don't and am accused of being an 'atheist' as if it's a rude word or my religion. Anyway (anywayS, if you're across the pond), it's not all about me.
I wonder now, why do people still believe this stuff anymore? That was a rhetorical question. No disrespect to believers of course.
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venus
It is not about denial of Jesus or what he stands for etc. Approach this as if you are hearing them for the first time! You would also feel the same way as rationalists ask: "Jesus was tortured and executed in payment for the hereditary sin of Adam, including possible future sins." But why?--especially so when the Bible says sin cannot be swapped: "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.” (Deuteronomy 24:16)
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Diogenesister
Just thought I'd let you know something I found of interest.
Its just that that crucifixion was used by the Romans not just because of the pain involved, but because it was their practice to leave the body up on the cross to rot and for the animals to pick at, Jewish or not.
Not only that, but what we know about Pontius Pilate it's extremely unlikely he would be compassionate enough to let someone take any body down, let alone that of a Jew. He had cared nothing about the people he ruled or their sensibilities.
Its likely Jesus body was never buried and therefore the story of the disappearance of the body is false.
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knowsnothing1
venus,
The OT is full of prophesies of Jesus, and that he would have to suffer that fate. The whole OT is a "shadow of the things to come". Each year, animals were sacrificed for atonement of sin. Jesus was the only sacrifice able to pay for the sins of all.
John 1:29
29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
If you believe in the resurrection, the only way it's possible is because of Jesus' death and resurrection.
1 Cor 15:12-20
12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
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Hanged Man
Today is the day the crucifixion takes place.....the winter solstice.....the old sun has passed all four "stations" and is now dead at the darkest time of the year......However.....something wonderful is about to happen!....the new baby sun (Jesus) is about to be born as he starts his journey round the four cardinal points.....of course it would be the magi (astrologers) who came to visit the newborn light.....they were the sky watchers.....they were the ones who understood the mazzaroth......the constellations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_symbol
Is it a coincidence that the ancient symbol for earth is the cross?.......no......the ancients knew about the four seasons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_symbol
Although he will be present (parousia) at this time....he is too weak to kill off his foes of darkness/cold and death...he is born at the start of winter....the dark forces still have the upper hand.....he will have to go into exile for forty days from candlemass until he gains his strength to overcome them at the spring equinox....then satan will have to scarper until he has his day at the autumnal equinox....where the sun will be judged at the scales of justice (sign of libra.....you can still see the scales of libra at courthouses).....however the spring equinox is not the time for judgment......the spring equinox (happens in the sign of Aries) is the time for the lamb of Aries to take the sins/darkness/death of the world away....as he passes over the equator.
In the daily cycle........when the sun passes over the horizon.....all of the stars disappear or are "killed".......he kills his thousands every dawn.
When the sun passes down over the horizon at sunset (daily cycle of libra) he heads off into the underworld to be reborn at midnight...the winter solstice of the daily cycle.
Hannukah is the Jewish culture celebrating the run up to the winter solstice.......none of it is Satanic....it is merely celebrating the cycle of our glorious saviour and light bringer....the one who brings the dead to life......the sun.
The Romans called this time of year "Saturnalia".....why?
Because the winter solstice occurs in the sign of Capricorn......and all astrologers know......the sign of Capricorn is ruled by.....guess who?.......Saturn!....hence Saturnalia
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Saturn_(Astrology)
Saturn is the grim reaper (hence his connection to agriculture)......you will always see him with his scythe or sickle........he puts it in and reaps during winter as he kills off the weak....this is the symbology of Jesus in revelation....reaping the winter of the cycle of the age.
Notice old father time (Saturn) with his sickle.....pointing to midnight....because he rules the sign of Capricorn....which is the midnight of the year......now you should also be grasping why Satan is portrayed as a goat.....due to the sign of Capricorn....Saturn is Satan......the ruler of the darkness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule_Goat
Saturn is also Herrut (Herod) in Egyptian lore....the one who chases Jesus,Mary and Joseph into exile in Egypt.
http://www.egyptiangods.co.uk/herrut.htm
Notice in the link above,Herrut chases the mother Meh (Mary),Horus (Christ) and Seb...(Joseph).
They are all telling stories about the cycle of the year....and the light and the darkness.
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venus
All those verses of sacrifices are written by Scribes whose hobby was to lie, says non other than great prophet Jeremiah 8:8
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Doug Mason
To work out what it would have meant if Jesus had never died is to ask the corresponding questions:
"Why did Jesus die?"
"What died? Was Jesus a human or a spirit who looked like a human?"
The Watchtower has its own "Trinity" of Michael =>Jesus=>Spirit. Three entities but one person. At what stage did the spirit climb into Mary's egg?
Doug