The "Critical Times" Con-Game - Dec. 15 Watchtower

by metatron 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    I think those that ruin the earth could also be greedy industrialists , corrupt governments and religionists that oppose christianity such as in the middle east . I don't think that revelations was written about rome but about future events that would take place before the end of the world as we know it .

    Again, the internal evidence of Revelation and Leviticus points to excessive sin as what "ruins the earth" and Rev. 19:2 in fact says it explicitly. As far as Babylon the Great being Rome, there is hardly any doubt about this. Remember what it was like after A.D. 70. Rome had just destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, exactly what Babylon did in 587 B.C. The typological parallel between Rome and Babylon was very much in the minds of early Christians. The prophecies of Revelation were written to give comfort to Christians living during that hard time, just as Ezekiel was written in sixth century B.C. At that time, John the Presbyter was a modern-day Ezekiel and Jeramiah, bringing potent warnings about the immediate divine judgment of Rome and its coming destruction, just as Jeramiah had prophesied the fall of Babylon and Ezekiel the fall of Tyre. Just read Rev. 17-18 side by side with Jeremiah 50 and Ezekiel 26-28 and the literary connection is clear.

    The details in Rev. 17 quite transparently apply to the Roman empire and the Neronian persection. The seven heads are Rome's seven hills, v. 9, and the horns are ten subject kings, v. 16. The beast, v. 8, is Nero himself, the number of the beast in 13:18 according to traditional gematria renders the name NERO CAESER. The worship of the beast in 13:15 refers to the Caeser cult which everyone was required to worship the king as a god so that "whom all the kings of the earth," that is, all the kings subject to the Empire, had to worship (17:2). The beast's killing of the saints (v. 6) is a reference to Nero's persecution of Christians. Verse 10 makes the identification with Nero quite plain: "The seven heads are also seven emperors. Five of them have already gone, one is here now, and one is yet to come." The five preceding emperors were JULIUS, AUGUSTUS, TIBERIUS, CALIGULA, and CLAUDIUS and the "one [that] is here now" would therefore be NERO. The seventh would be VESPASIAN, who was responsible under General Titus for the destruction of Jerusalem. And then in v. 11 we read: "The beast who once was and now is not, is at the same time the eighth and one of the seven, and he is going to his destruction." The eighth emperor is probably a reference to DOMITIAN (Titus had a brief reign and was closely associated with Vespasian), who was believed by many to be Nero resurrected. This Nero redivivus legend is also mentioned in ch. 13 where the beast had "worldwide authority" (v. 2) and then received a fatal wound "but that this fatal injury had healed" (v. 3). According to the legend, the resurrected Nero would head a Parthian army (the Parthians were a vassal of Rome) and attack the city once more (as Nero had previously attacked the city with his fire). This is stated in 17:16 where "the time will come when the ten horns [the vassal kings of the Roman Empire, cf. v. 12] and the beast [Nero] will turn against the prostitute [Rome], and strip off her clohtes and leave her naked, then they will eat her flesh and burn the remains in the fire."

    Bear in mind also that the understanding that Babylon referred to Rome was near universal in early Christianity and is the very source of the Watchtower claim that Babylon the Great in Revelation refers to "the empire of false religion". During the Reformation, the Protestant reformers adopted the traditional view that Babylon referred to Rome, but since Rome in their day was the headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church, they adjusted the interpretation to refer to Roman Catholicism. In the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, Protestants commonly understood Babylon the Great as symbolizing Catholicism, and Pastor Russell inherited this understanding and broadened it to Christendom in general. Then later on, the Watchtower broadened it even further to include all other religions in its "Religion is a Snare and a Racket" days. But always at the very root of all this was the original understanding that Babylon referred to Rome.

    The same understanding of Babylon as Rome and the same Nero redivivus legend appears in Book 5 of the Sibylline Oracles, a Jewish prophecy written between A.D. 80 and 110. In this version, Nero did not really die but went into hiding with the Parthians. Let me quote some excerpts of it:

    The poets will bewail thrice-wretched Greece when a great king of great Rome, a godlike man from Italy, will cut the ridge of the isthmus. Him, they say, Zeus himself begot and lady Hera. Playing at theatricals with honey-sweet songs rendered with melodious voice, he will destroy many men, and his wretched mother [obviously referring to Nero]. He will flee from Babylon [clearly referring to Rome], a terrible and shameless prince whom all mortals and noble men despise. For he destroyed many men and laid hands on the womb...He will come to the Medes and the kings of the Persians, those whom he first desired and to whom he gave glory, lurking with these evil ones against a true people. He seized the divinely built Temple and burned the citizens and peoples who went into it [Nero did not of course capture Jerusalem but the war began in his reign]....

    But when the fourth year a great star shines which alone will destroy the whole earth [cf. Revelation 8:10, about the huge star falling from the sky to the sea], because of the honor which they first gave to Poseidon of the sea, a great star will come from heaven to the wondrous sea and will burn the deep sea and Babylon itself and the land of Italy [Babylon being in the land of Italy], because of which many holy faithful Hebrews and a true people perished....With you are found adulteries and illicit intercourse with boys [cf. the fornication and sin of Rome in Rev. 19:2 that pollutes the land]. Effeminate and unjust, evil city, ill-fated above all. Alas, city of the Latin land, unclean in all things, as a widow you will sit by the banks [cf. Isaiah 47:2, 8-9, where Babylon the "voluptuous woman" is now a widow at the riverbank], and the river Tiber will weep for you [cf. the weeping for Babylon in Rev. 18:9-23 by the "seafaring men and sailors" on Babylon's rivers], its consort....

    There will come to pass in the last time about the waning of the moon a war which will throw the world into confusion and be deceptive in guile [cf. the great battle in Rev. 19:19, where the "beast" leads the great war]. A man who is a matricide [obviously referring to Nero] will come from the ends of the earth in flight and devising penetrating schemes in his mind. He will destroy every land and conquer all and consider all things more wisely than all men [cf. the wisdom and miracles of the Beast in Rev. 13:13-15]....Woe to you, Babylon, of golden throne and golden sandal. For many years you were the sole kingdom ruling over the world. You who were formerly great and universal, you will no longer lie on golden mountains and streams of the Euphrates [in parallel with Rome on the River Tiber]. You will be spread out flat by the turmoil of an earthquake [Rev. 16:18-19]. Terrible Parthians make you shake all over [referring to the return of Nero with the Parthian army; cf. also Rev. 9:14-19 and 16:12 which discusses the Parthian kings and army]...You will pay a bitter reckoning to your enemies in return for your crooked words. In the last time, the sea will be dry [cf. Rev. 21:1] and ships will then no longer sail to Italy.

    The oracle then extends to a universal war involving the heavenly hosts and the conflaguration of the earth (cf. Seneca's Consolatio ad Marciam 26.6). The connection with the prophecy in Revelation is very clear and shows that Jews as well had similar visions and used the same language to refer to Nero and Rome, even more explicitly than in Revelation. The expectation of Domitian's rule culminating into universal Armageddon pretty much dates this prophecy to that time. Book 8 of the Sibylline Oracles dates to later in the second century A.D. and incorporates the same Nero redivivus myth, but updates it to the time of Marcus Aurelius and similarly expects the destruction of Rome and universal conflaguration during Aurelius' time.

    Leolaia

  • fearnotruth22
    fearnotruth22

    Got my forty

    The answer to your question about earthquakes is found in the awake mag entitled EARHQUAKES AND YOU. This article is insiduous new light atht probably slipped the eyes of the majority. REad it carefully and you will see that a change in teaching has taken place. According to the article, earhquakes magnitude and frequency not greater than in other generations, this ammends the teaching in the insight book stating that eartquqkes since 1914 greater in magnitude and frequency. I am only paraphrasing the citations I mention, worth the read.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    On the Nero redivivus myth, see also Suetonius' Nero, 57 (early second century A.D.):

    "Nero died at the age of 31, on the anniversary of Octavia's murder. In the widespread general rejoicing, citizens ran throught the streets wearing caps of liberty. But there were people who used to lay spring and summer flowers on his grave for a long time, and had statues made of him. . .; they even continued to circulate edicts pretending he was still alive and would soon return to confound his enemies. . . . In fact, twenty years later, when I was a young man, a mysterious individual came forward claiming to be Nero; and so magical was the sound of his name in the Parthians' ears that they supported him to the best of their ability, and only handed him over with great reluctance."

    Terentius Maximus of Parthia claimed to be Nero redivivus in A.D. 80. The Roman writer Juvenal called Domitian a "second Nero" (calvus Nero; IV, 38). Tacitus, Hist. i. 78, ii. 8 mentions pretenders claiming to be "Nero reborn" as late as A.D. 89. The late first century A.D. Christian interpolation in the Ascension of Isaiah 4:2-4 foretells the return of Nero in a manner reminiscent of Revelation and SibOr 5, as an incarnation of Satan himself (likely merging the redivivus myth with the Christian antichrist myth):

    "And after it has been brought to completion, Beliar will descend, the great angel, the king of this world, which he has ruled ever since it existed. He will descend from his firmament in the form of a man, a king of iniquity, a murderer of his mother--this is the king of this world--and will persecute the plant which the twelve apostles of the Beloved will have planted; some of the twelve will be given into his hand. This angel, Beliar, will come in the form of that king, and with him will come all the powers of this world, and they will obey him in every wish."

    Re Nero redivivus being Beliar, see also SibOr 3:64-74 which equates the two. As for Rome being prefigured by Babylon, we find this identification in the pre-Christian pesher on Habakkuk 1:6 (dating to the first century B.C.), which in 1QHab 2.10-14 equates the Chaldeans with the Romans:

    10. all coming to his people and. ... (be)cause behold I am raising up (1:6)
    11. the Chaldeans, the nation the bit(ter) ... ... (the has)ty (1:6)
    12. Pesher about how the Romans a... ..h speedy ones and mighty men
    13. in war to destroy r.. .... from the government of
    14. the Romans to do evil ... ... and we do not say

    The interpretation continues in 3.6-11:

    6. and to come with all the peoples. Their horses are lighter than leopards and more alert (1:8)
    7. than the evening wolves. Their horsemen spread themselves from afar 1:8,9)
    8. and they fly as an eagle hastening to eat. (1:8) All of them coming for violence multiplying(1:9)
    9. by their faces the east (wind). Pesher about the Romans who
    10. possess the earth with horses and with their beasts and extend themselves
    11. and they come from the isles of the sea to destroy ... and (..)iyl the peoples as an eagle

    Within the New Testament, the reference to "Babylon" in 1 Peter 5:13 is generally thought to be a mention of Peter in Rome (compare 2 Timothy 4:11). Outside of the New Testament, "Babylon" as symbolic term for Rome occurs in several other early Christian writings (aside from Sibylline Oracles, Book 5, which I quoted above as very explicitly identifying Babylon with Rome in a Revelation-type prophecy from the end of the first century). There is for instance, what second-century apologist Tertullian also wrote:

    "By a similar usage Babylon also in our John is a figure of the city of Rome, as being like (Babylon) great and proud in royal power, and warring down the saints of God." (Against Marcion, 13)
    "So, again, Babylon, in our own John, is a figure of the city Rome, as being equally great and proud of her sway, and triumphant over the saints." (Answer to the Jews, 9)

    In other Jewish apocalyptic works similar to Revelation (like SibOr 5), Babylon also refers to Rome. See 2 Baruch 32:2-33:2 and 4 Ezra 3:1-2, which date to the early second century A.D.

    Leolaia

  • Waymores Ghost
    Waymores Ghost

    Good post, metatron.

    : They never get tired of repeating this deception, do they?

    It appears not. They even go out on a limb every few decades and drop a date. 1914, 1925, 1975...

    Wg

  • heathen
    heathen

    Leolaia-- I was reading in revelation 18 that with a swift pitch babylon would be destroyed and never found again so I think the theory that rome was babylon does have some holes in it . If I remember correctly Rome is still a city in Italy . That was some nice research tho.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Whether a prophecy was fulfilled or not is a separate matter than whether Rev. 18 is an oracle against Rome. The internal evidence and additional external literary evidence shows this to be the case. Not all prophecies in the Bible have the expected fulfillment. Not all youth in Judea were slaughtered by the Babylonians as Ezekiel had prophesied in ch. 14. In fact, Ez. candidly admits in a postscript in 14:22 that his threat was refuted by the facts of history. It is plain tho what Ezekiel was talking about, and just because it didn't come about as expected doesn't mean Ez. was talking about something else. Look at the whole message of the Book of Jonah. Here was a prophet almost paranoid about his prophecy not coming to pass. God tried to show him that the prophecy of Ninevah's destruction was contingent on the actions of the Ninevites, and he shouldn't feel bad for making an oracle that never was fulfilled. Now look at the prophecies at the end of the Book of Daniel. It plainly expects the Messiah and divine judgment to follow right after the persecution wrought by Antiochus Epiphanes. Because this didn't happen doesn't at all mean that the oracles didn't apply to Antiochus. There are so many details crammed in the prophecy that make it absolutely clear that Antiochus is meant. Now look to the prophecies of the last days in Matthew, Luke, and Mark. It presents the return of the Son of Man on the clouds of heaven and divine judgment right at the Roman seige of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. But this also did not happen. The text tho makes it very clear that there is reference to the "Jerusalem circled by encamped armies". It is the same thing with Revelation. The persecution of the saints in Rome was not followed by an invasion by Nero redivivus with the destruction of the city and universal Armageddon. But that doesn't change the fact that the prophecy was an oracle against Rome.

    There are thus two main ways to handle these implications. One is to adopt a strictly historicist view, and just regard the prophecies as unfulfilled. Like the case of Ezekiel or Jonah, perhaps God decided not to act at that time because of some changed situation. Another is a historicist-futurist view, which claims that part of the prophecy was fulfilled in the first century and the rest (or the whole prophecy at a different level) will be fulfilled at a future time. This is how the WTS and most Christians approach the prophecies in Daniel and the Gospels, that there is a "double fulfillment" and the reason why the WHOLE prophecy wasn't fulfilled was because it was partially written to refer to events at the end of the age. Same thing with Revelation. But the possibility of a future fulfillment, again, does not negate the plain meaning of the prophecy for the time in which it was written. Daniel spoke to the situation with Antiochus, the Gospels spoke to the situation with Jerusalem's siege, and Revelation spoke to the persecution of Christians at Rome, Caesar worship, and the city's final judgement. It is a judgment oracle just like the many others in Jeremiah, Isaiah, and Ezekiel against Tyre, Edom, Egypt, Assyria, and Babylon. Another more unlikely possibility is a preterite-historicist view. In this view, the oracle was originally written during Nero's reign against Jerusalem and this was the city originally meant. The destruction of the city in A.D. 70 then fulfilled the prophecy and it was a successful prophecy, one that John then later adapted several decades later to refer to Rome in his time. In this case the prophecy was fulfilled, but only in a prior application. All these interpretations are interesting, but overwhelming evidence still points to the prophecy as being relevant to the then-current circumstances of the Christians for whom the prophecy was written to give comfort.

    Leolaia

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    Points made by Leolaia excellent and well-taken. However, despite the unprecedented overall advances in human well-being and quality of life that we presently enjoy, there are several apparently intractable problems unique to our times that confront the human race: (1) the despoiling of the earth's resources and its corollary, the unfilled -- and unfillable -- aspirations of the Third World Nations to attain to a quality of life enjoyed by the developed nations (comprised of maybe 10 percent of the global population) who have reached their levels of comfort by consuming 95 percent of the earth's energy resources; (2) the world population explosion (3) proliferation of nuclear weapons with the demonstrated capacity to utterly destroy the planet.

    All of these would seem to mandate the urgent attention --read intervention -- of an Almighty Being if the earth and its inhabitants is to survive..

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    These Malthusian threads would be funny if you people didn't try to legislate your morality onto the rest of us.

    I think those that ruin the earth could also be greedy industrialists , corrupt governments and religionists that oppose christianity such as in the middle east . I don't think that revelations was written about rome but about future events that would take place before the end of the world as we know it .

    "Greedy industrialists" have, for example, created motor cars - some of which became ambulances - and would drive you to the hospital if you needed it. Industry has created a way for you to survive a heart attack. It has created cures for many diseases - actual cures! Industrialism is the best thing to have ever happened to us as a people - it has given us a higher standard of living than ever before.

    "Corrupt Governments" are eternal. However, the application of democracy and a free press allows for monitoring and restraint of such corruption.

    "Religionists who oppose Christianity" I mean, what? Who in their right mind WOULDN'T oppose Christianity from invading their country - having the likes of Jerry Falwell bilking your people out of millions of dinars by threatening them with eternal torment.

    Points made by Leolaia excellent and well-taken. However, despite the unprecedented overall advances in human well-being and quality of life that we presently enjoy, there are several apparently intractable problems unique to our times that confront the human race: (1) the despoiling of the earth's resources and its corollary, the unfilled -- and unfillable -- aspirations of the Third World Nations to attain to a quality of life enjoyed by the developed nations (comprised of maybe 10 percent of the global population) who have reached their levels of comfort by consuming 95 percent of the earth's energy resources; (2) the world population explosion (3) proliferation of nuclear weapons with the demonstrated capacity to utterly destroy the planet.

    1) Despoiling of the earth's natural resources is a crude description of what's going on. Technology has improved and will continue to improve - increasing efficiency. It is possible for the Third World to achieve our quality of life. Better technology will assure this! Just because we consume 95 percent of the earth's current energy production doesn't mean that we won't find another source of energy, or when the Third World is ready, being able to help them to the next level. Even the Sierra Club supports the construction of newer model nuclear plants - because of their incredible efficiency and reduced waste. There is plenty of energy for everyone - we just use oil because it is easy and we always have done so before. But we can and will change - even as we did from Steam to Oil.

    2) The world population explosion is our greatest triumph and a testament to our ability to feed, educate, and care for medically a larger and larger population. More people is better - people are the earth's greatest and most valuable natural resource. We will find a way to care for everyone. There is always a new way, a better way, to care for everybody.

    3) nuclear weapons is a boogeyman. They are hard to make, easily tracked, and fallible. Yes, many nations have them - but not that many have the capacity to destroy the planet with them. If they ever do - then hopefully new technolgies will have been found to lessen their effects. Missile shields is the clumsiest project along these lines. There are many more being developed.

    Doom and gloomers do not place enough emphasis on people's ability to adapt.

    As for destroying the earth - mankind cannot do it. We might, through some horrible accident or war, poison it for ten thousand years with radiation and kill OURSELVES off - but the earth has been through mass extinctions before - and new life will emerge, life perhaps that makes more sense than ours does.

    Distressed because we might die? Individually, it makes no difference - because we all die, sooner or later. There is nothing you can do to prevent that. On the whole, I'm optimistic for the species, and I treasure the good things I get to see before I die.

    CZAR

  • metatron
    metatron

    The "population explosion" is becoming a dud.

    Consider Russia: www.rense.com/general45/russia.htm Say goodbye to the King of the North!

    Much of Europe is DISAPPEARING due to low birth rates. Entire nations could fade away in 30 years ( Denmark)

    Japan is in trouble - few babies and aging more rapidly than any modern nation

    African population growth rates have been revised downward due to massive deaths due to stavation, war and AIDS

    Rates have dropped in India, China and the US in recent years.

    Nuclear weapons are a problem BUT the great mass of them will shrink because Russia and the US don't need

    so many. Russia is now switching back to bombers because so many of their missiles are in bad shape and it

    costs money to fix them. BESIDES THIS, world peace is going to advance because of trade. Russia now owns

    Lukoil - whose new gas stations opened in NY state recently. The Chinese are heavily tied in with the US economy.

    The environment DOES NOT NEED Divine Intervention, just more of the progress that's already appeared.

    Global Warming/CO2 will increase biological productivity ( Trees, plants, food) and may reduce heating costs by a

    very small amount. There's very little that humans can do to mess up the earth that exceeds past NATURAL

    destructions. I recall that Steven Gould said that probably 99% of all the species that have ever existed are gone

    - because of 'nature'.

    As for the Third World, I see no impediment except needing good government. Anybody remember that (technological

    optimist) Julian Simon WON the bet over Paul Ehrlich ( scarcity Guru) over commodity abundances?

    metatron

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    and metatron 9great post by the way) the black death/bubonic plague wiped out 1/3rd of the entire population of Europe during the Middle Ages -- there wass also a huge Cholera outbreak inLondon as short ago as 1870s -- Yes Sir we have come a long way -- hardly critical times

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit