by AJN 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
greven,
Sorry I can’t post the correspondence – this would identify me absolutely to the WT trolls. I'm not in a position where I could afford that.
It is a couple of years ago now but I may still have the correspondence. I will look it out and P.M. you with any info of interest and let you have copies if you like.
link
To answer the original question? NO! I believe the start of the Watchtower under C.T. Russell was sincere, although it was a different time. The Society was just a publishing house, the Bible Students were independent. they elected their own elders and officers, and governed themselves.
When the Judge seized control of the published houses, he attemptd to ursurp the authority of the congregations, some gave in, many did not and the split began. He created a heirachy similar to the Catholic Church, and with the few faithful in his hand, created the Jehovah's Witnesses.
When Knorr too over, he was the businessman, while VP Franz took the theological reigns and had to make sense of all the unscriptural changes that the Judge made, instead of reversing some bad decisions and doctrinal changes, he explained them away with misappliocations and types and shadows.
Franz became took over and ever since then, the WTS has been on automatic pilot, the grreat apostasy in the 1970s, the inquisition at Bethel inm the 1980s, the reorganization in the 1990s.
Now, they have no real leadership, the articles are so watered down you can interpret them any which way. The new releases are just re erites of older books with new covers. They attract and breed dysfunctional people, while all the educated and free thinkers are pushed out.
Their on their last legs unless some major changes happen, for better or for worse. A split is inevitable, there will be in my opinion indepedent JW congregations, not adhereing to the Society. The Society will again be just another publishing house with independent JW congregations governing themselves. They'll have a doctrinal statement, on what they'll all all can agree upon and evrything else is interpretation.
RR
They attract and breed dysfunctional people, while all the educated and free thinkers are pushed out.
Very true. It is ironic that they accuse other religions of "tickling the ears" of their members by feeding them what they want to hear. The WTS does the same thing, only for people who like high-control and strict rules.
Regarding a possible split. I don't think anything like that will happen, especially on the scale as when Russell died. The WTS is all about control. They will always be about control. Instead of a mass exodus into another movement, what they have is a bucket with a thousand small holes leaking in every direction.
They will always maintain the high level of control they have... only they have become like a tick infested anemic dog.
RR,
What do you suppose would have been the mindset of Russell, had he lived another 30 years?
Do you think with the dub population exploding that he could have kept his original focus? What are the chances it would have or would not have,..... worked into the legal type system it has now become?
Gumby
If the GB's research involves nothing more than reading Baptist websites, then yes it is possible they believe what they print. If they do any independant research in science or Bible scholarship then no, they are consciously lying.
Two of the biggest (natural) killers (medically speaking) of old men are prostate cancer, and heart problems.
Do you believe these old coots are having these surguries without blood?
I think not...
no
I think the Governing Body members may not have full trust in everything they teach but they have enough belief in the general teachings of the Society to continue on. Raymond Franz did not indicate that these men were outright liars just misled, followers of followers.
Unfortunately they forgot they were supposed to be followers of only the Christ and not men.
Instead of trying to figure this out, I'm going to compare it.
Did you ever know someone who thought they were incredibly smart, who seemed so confident telling you things that you knew were untrue? Someone who continually lies about everything, but yet denies that he's lying?
The GB is the same thing. They know deep down inside they're full of shit, but they can do anything they want because they're of the anointed.
However, sometimes when you get a pile of bullshitters in a room, the shit really starts to fly.
Thanks everyone, there were some perspective expanding thoughts in your replies. What I mean is - wow - I'd never thought about it like that! I've been hiding from this 'stuff' (baggage, issues, whatever) for about 15 years, now I come here and you good people share all your perspectives and I absorb it and hopefully come to resolution. Yayy for technology and caring people :)
Hi gumby I really must get a hold of that book. It sounds fascinating. Didn't someone put it online at some point? (I seem to remember reading that) - no doubt it's been deleted by now though.
Joy2bfree. Thanks for the link and the welcome, I'll check the web site out :)
lastcall. "think most of them believe their own bullshit" - yeah probably eh. That's a scary thought.
Elsewhere. LOL - never heard them compared to Sadam Hussein, I must think about how I can present that point to my teenage son because in essence you seem to be spot on, and that's a bit of a concern.
Enishi. "so push what they know to be true deep into their subconscious" - I did that myself for years, that's why it's taken me so long to turn round and face this stuff. I just *have* to remove the fear.
Link. Good point, I could write to them couldn't I.
RPM. A newby like me :) Hi. I'm reading an interesting book at the moment called "Counting the Day's to Armageddon" by Robert Crompton. It talks about the early life of the religion and how it developed. It's useful info to know eh, thanks for your post :)
DanTheMan. Thanks for the info on the book, I am most keen to get a hold of a copy, the more opinions I hear about it the better it sounds.
RR. "instead of reversing some bad decisions and doctrinal changes, he explained them away with misappliocations and types and shadows." - Mmm yeah - that's well described. I see their tactics haven't changed a lot in the interim period. Have you read this? http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/earth.htm
gumby. You ask some interesting questions, it'll be interesting to see what develops.
littlewitch. Yeah good point, I hadn't thought about that one.
Greenpalmtreesstillmine. "but they have enough belief in the general teachings of the Society to continue on. " - I wonder if that isn't the way a lot of witnesses feel?
Nosferatu. "They know deep down inside they're full of shit, but they can do anything they want because they're of the anointed." - Yeah, interesting thought, it really does allow abuse of power eh. Do you think they could be sued for 'misfeasance' if they were a governmental organisation? Hmm, worth some thought.
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Thanks everyone :)
Hey - neat formatting options here btw.
