Did it go south?
Elder to visit me this Saturday to invite for the memorial
Here is what happened.
2 elders came, one in his 60's and another in his 70's
After a formal chat for 2 mins, the older one started off with Noah's Flood. I never expected this. He said that the flood literally happened and people today never believe it and ridicule it. My wife should have told them that I am an atheist and hence this may be the reason.
I patiently waited until he finished. Then I asked him why doesn't any of the Science channels like National Geography or discovery produce a documentary about the flood and prove its occurrence if this was so true.
THe older one replied that the Science channels willfully conceal the Noah's flood in order to propagate their own evolution agenda.
Ha... that moment I realized that I have to debate now with willfully ignorant WT crackpots .
Me: Then I bought up the Child abuse cases and ARC
Elders response: Apostate lies
Me: United Nation Membership
Elders: Apostate lies
Me: I asked them how do they classify the Blood Issue with Minor and major components. Asked them to show it from the Bible
Elders: How can you question God ?
Then I questioned about John 6:54 where Jesus tells everyone do be cannibaslistic
They started off with the Gymnastics of explaining me the 144K and stuff
They said that Jah is patient to see people repent and return to him
I asked them then why does he immediately wipe out so many tribes in a fit of anger.
They said that Jah ousted Satan from heaven and these are the last days.
Me: A loving father would not send Serial Killer to his childrens House. Would they.
The younger one of the two elders said that Jah Ousted out Satan to earth in order to set right things.
They finally handed over the Memorial invitation and a “Return to Jehovah” brochure.
I toldf them I may not attend as I see this as a mere ritual and is not beneficial to anyone
The arguments went on for hours and I was literally tired to handle their willful ignorance and stupidity.
Finally I challenged them that if they are really honest, would they investigate about WT's connection with the UNO. They agreed. They refused to see the UNO evidence letter I was willing to provide. Then, I firmly said that I would wait for another visit from them after they have researched on this.
It was a 1.5 hour energy/Time waste at my end
It's interesting how a conversation with JW elders is always a one way "discussion". I find that even with my father in law, who is otherwise a very humble and reasonable man. He will not allow himself to even just give a consideration to any information or thought that has not come through the "channel" for fear that it would be disloyal to his heavenly father JHVH and mother - The Organization. I wonder how many other elders keep themselves willingly in such a mental jail.
Yes, this is called Self-deception out of Willful ignorance.
There is no way we can make them understand that they are deceiving themselves, unless they take up the courage and clear their mind and start to think open mindedly, as most of us did
It’s very hard or totally impossible to have meaningful conversation with such fellas.
I'd tell them to write a letter to the Borg HQ asking about the UN membership and show me the reply. After all, Bible says something about "defending" the Good News.
DesirousOfChange Yes, I did tell them to write a letter to their leaders inquiring about the UNO connection and child abuse cases.
They assured that they would get back to me on this after their supposed "Research"
You are very lucky this wasn't an enquiry into setting you up for a JC. Be careful if they ask you the loyalty question. If you don' mind giving them the one finger Salut then well and good. But for the sake of your wife and your marriage it may be another matter.
joe134cd, I got myself Disassociated 7 years ago. They are trying to pull me back.
Oh well then I guess it's full steam ahead then. You certainly have a very understanding wife - all be it the JW mentality.
AlanVThe main thing is not to cover too many points. It is very easy for us to do that, but its much better to stick to maybe two or three points, and cover those points well.
I agree. Reeling out all the issues, they just write you off as a rank apostate. Stick to 2 or 3 that cannot be dismissed. Blood is a good one. Also, write your points down to remind yourself but also if he sees your tangible proof it's harder to dismiss and move on.