This one bible passage proves abortions are wrong and honoring Mary is right

by TTWSYF 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  TTWSYF

  Sigfrid- being called a racist doesn't hold the weight that it used too.

  Soon, it may be a even be considered a compliment..lol

  Diogen- You would be hard pressed to find biblical passages that Catholics don't like. The new testament is a Catholic book. The example of Jesus calling his mother 'woman' is not derogatory as the WTS would have you believe. Jesus was never disrespectful of or to his mother. The passage of calling Mary 'woman' is a reference of the OT title of the Woman who will crush the head of the serpent. Enmity between the two. Gen 3:15

  That said, not looking to piss anyone off, just listing something that seemed interesting.

  Jeff- Interesting passages for an adulterous wife. Clearly she bears more guilt than the adulterous husband. I do not consider those passages as an indicator that abortion is ok. It is like when Jesus said not to divorce and was rebutted with 'Moses said we could.' Jesus replied that it was because of 'your hardness of heart'.

  No matter the way that a mother conceives [adultery, rape, incest or traditional marital relations], the person in the womb is 100% innocent and worthy of living a life for no other reason than being created in the image and likeness of God.

  TTWSYF
• 

  Simon

  I think trying to connect abortions to honouring Mary is a real stretch and the bible is really a poor standard for morality.

  I think abortion is objectively bad and should be generally dissuaded as it's killing the most vulnerable of all human life, often for no better reason than laziness or poor judgement by those involved.

  There are cases when it may be appropriate, but it's over used as a procedure.

  But we don't need the bible or Mary to come to that conclusion. We have a higher standard than god's book of abuses, which is our evolved humanity.
• 

  TTWSYF

  Hey Simon. I guess a better topic headline would've been 'you're a mother at conception' instead of 'abortions are wrong'

  That said, how much of a stretch is it? I mean there is always a better way and that is the way that we all should take. Everyone knows [of] some mother who stopped smoking, drinking, starting eating better or changed their life dramatically just because they got pregnant. These are examples of women making the better choice for their children and themselves. They are mothers at that moment. Your mother was your mother before you were born.

  Then there's the 'I have a clump of cells' teaching that our higher evolved society promotes. A women's clump of cells is actually a person, just like a dog's clump of cells are actually dogs.

  The bible is a poor standard of morality? Well that answer is in the where or who were you taught from or by? The bible has lots of examples of morality. Both good and bad. Good teachers are essential.

  When Jesus's apostles started spreading [all] the teachings of Jesus ,the Roman and Greek speaking world had aqueducts, art, architecture, plumbing and a highly evolved humanity. Yet elite Roman and Greek citizens would have a slave boy or girl for sex. Guess what? that was considered the 'good life' .

  Jesus's teachings were for all people to love one another as themselves. They invented human rights.

  I couldn't disagree with you more on our evolved humanity.

  The Truth Will Set You Free
• 

  Simon

  The bible is a poor standard of morality? Well that answer is in the where or who were you taught from or by? The bible has lots of examples of morality. Both good and bad. Good teachers are essential.

  Yes. Just because the bible contains some no-brainers doesn't make it inspired or negate all the crap that you conveniently gloss over. The bible allows slavery. Humans decided it was immoral. Therefore humans have better morals than 'god'.

  People who haven't had any religious upbringing can know right and wrong. In fact, studies show that babies as young as a few months can make judgements on whether someone is mean or kind to others.

  The hate and barbarism is taught and usually comes from the religious superstitious fantasy books.
• 

  Rocketman123

  Question to TTWSYF ..

  If you had a 15 year daughter who was walking home one day only to be dragged into some bushes and brutality raped, then later on it was realized she was pregnant out this forced sexaul rape.

  Would you still hold to that an abortion should not be pursued if your daughter wanted one ?

  Applying your moral justification from the bible scriptures that you quoted.
  
• 

  Bobcat

  Hi TTWSYF,

  Since part of this thread is about Mary, here is a post (off site) that discusses who Jesus assigned to care for Mary at the execution site. The links at the bottom of the post go into more detail.
• 

  Vidiot

  I can do it, too...

  ...Ephesians chapter 5: verses 5-7; the Bible passage that proves Abolitionists were wrong and slavery is right.

  ...Genesis chapers 1-3; the Bible passages that prove 150 years of biological science is wrong and creationism is right.

  ...the entire book of Joshua; the Bible passages that prove peaceful immigration is wrong and invasion/genocide is right.
  
• 

  Simon

  Would you still hold to that an abortion should not be pursued if your daughter wanted one ?

  Well going off the bible-rules, she'd have to marry him and then 'enjoy' the rest of her life being raped by her rapist owner.

  Yeah, it's such a good moral book isn't it?! (not)

  I don't class a morning-after pill as an abortion, it's more late-acting contraception.

  The majority of abortions are not in this category.
• 

  TTWSYF

  Simon Yes. Just because the bible contains some no-brainers doesn't make it inspired or negate all the crap that you conveniently gloss over. The bible allows slavery. Humans decided it was immoral. Therefore humans have better morals than 'god'.

  Again, I couldn't disagree with you more. Knowing when a person is a parent is not so cut and dry in society is it? During Jesus time people would discard children who were compromised [physically, mentally or emotionally] and it was the first Christians who would pick them up from the side of the road and cared for them just because they were human beings. Those were the teachings of Jesus. Sure, HIS church is filled with great people and people who suck, so yes, there were predators just like there are everywhere, but the teachings are rock solid. Most of my problems are from other people, lol.

  Ever see 300? In the beginning the King looked at his son to make sure he was perfect or he would chuck him over the cliff onto the pile of baby bones.

  Same thing happens today with people getting tests done to see of their child has downs or some other syndrome. People today [YES] even abort children even based on sex, so I think history does not agree with your assessment of our civilized society.

  The good things like foodbanks, homeless shelters, hospitals, universities, orphanages etc did not exist before Jesus's church gave them to the world. There is such a thing as a better choice because there is such a thing as truth.

  Rocketman- I would [of course] be devastated if one of my daughters got raped. And I would not fault someone for choosing to abort such a pregnancy, however, what do you think would be the more noble or the better way? To abort your grandchild. Have no love what so ever for the part of the child that is your progeny? I have no idea what my daughters would do. I know what I'd want them to do. And that would be to make the better choice.

  Like it or not, God created us to thrive when we face resistance. It could be building muscle by weight resistance, building brain power through reading and studying, even following through on commitments builds a stronger character. The same is true for sufferings. That builds spirituality perhaps and has a value. That's why we shouldn't want to support state sponsored killing and suicide, but it's all part of our evolved society?

  I think so.

  TTWSYF
• 

  Rocketman123

  however, what do you think would be the more noble or the better way? To abort your grandchild,

  aww that old switcheroo of replacing a growing fetus as being a fulling grow child born out of love and intention.

  I know what I'd want them to do. And that would be to make the better choice.

  So its just about your own appealing selfishness that you would want your daughter to keep the fetus to full birth.

  So you would want your daughter to born a child that she never wanted, that continuously reminds her what cased this birth/pregnancy for the rest of her life and to be a responsible parent and mother to this child as well.

  Sounds like you really dont love your daughter very much, not at least more than having power over other people's lives.

  You sure are a godly man then full of sanctimonious self righteousness vindication.