I have a hard time blaming the Watchtower

by spiritwalker 132 Replies latest jw friends

  • spiritwalker
    spiritwalker

    As a Witness, I accepted what was said, "hook, line and sinker." If the Watchtower said it, and the men on the platform preached it, then it must have been true. So it was very hard to accept as an adult, that they were wrong. Yet in doing this, I do not blame the Watchtower for what I accepted as a Witness. I blame myself. Why?

    As a society, I think that we all want to blame others for our own mistakes. A woman sues McDonald's because the coffee is to hot and burns her. People sue cigarette companies because they cause cancer, even though this has been on the labels for years. People sue for election problems when their candidate loses, even though the elections have been the same way for years. In the end, I can not open a newspaper or watch a news program, without seeing the message, "it was not my fault, it was someone else's."

    So perhaps as an adult, I enjoy actually accepting my own responsibly and not trying to find someone else to blame for everything. Now I realize, it would be very easy to say certain things, about the religion, and say it is very wrong. Perhaps; family pressure, instilling the fear of god, brainwashing, gossip, shunning, etc. These are all valid points, yet if adults stopped letting others do the thinking for them, none of these problems would exist. Basically, if you attach puppet strings to your life and tell others to pull them and do not resist, then the dance you dance is something you allowed and not something they caused.

    As I sit here writing this, I am really wanting to say, "yes but ... " to a million things I can think of that makes me want to think that the Watchtower misleads people. Yet in all of them, I can root back to someone picking up that Watchtower, reading it and actually having to accept it to cause any impact. They accepted it, they allowed it into their lives and THEY not THEM are responsible for their actions. Much the same as people who read one sided political messages and getting emotional before they get all the facts. When does this take affect?

    I think it takes affect when your parents cut your puppet strings and allow you to be an adult. When that happens and you choose to follow a religion and not learn to think for yourself. Then you deserve the life that it goes with. Religion is a weird thing in history, it has done the thinking for many men and woman and not just with the Jehovah's Witnesses. So to blame them and not see the fact that we are all adults who hold our own level of responsibly, just does not seem right to me and reminds me of what I see each day in the media.

    So when I look back and realize all the stupid, stupid things I accepted. I don't say to myself, "those people sure did lead me astray." No, rather I say, "I sure let myself get lead in the wrong direction," and I find myself less angry or even emotional at all, about the Witnesses. Heck, if I had that good of bait for bass fishing as they have for keeping people in their religion. I would limit out each time and would never need to try so many new things each year. The only thing that gets the bass to the lure I cast in the water is the their fins swiming to it . Their personal desire to change course! Although, I have never seen a fish take a lure, "hook, line and sinker." I have seen many Witnesses do it.

  • SanFranciscoJim
    SanFranciscoJim
    A woman sues McDonald's because the coffee is to hot and burns her. People sue cigarette companies because they cause cancer, even though this has been on the labels for years.

    The difference between the WTBTS and the companies mentioned above is that neither McDonald's nor any tobacco company utilize high-mind-control techniques to coerce us into using their brands.

    If it truly were a matter of free choice, I would completely agree with your post above. Unfortunately, the WTBTS has a track record for failed promises, utilization of mind control techniques through intensive study of their publications, and fear of expressing a difference of opinion through the threat of shunning and expulsion.

  • Euphemism
    Euphemism

    I agree with Jim here.

    In a nutshell, I would say that the Society is emotionally abusive. Is an abuse victim to blame for their abuse? I don't think so.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Your argument is like saying the mugging victim is responsible because he was walking in the wrong place or the rape victim is responsible because of what she wore. It is also like blaming the wife who gets beaten by her husband daily.

    From the time we are young we are warned that hot liquids can burn. The dangers of smoking have been widely know for decades. Your anology doesn't work. And it doesn't work becaus eno one puts a lable on nice clean-cut people who come to your house to study the Bible (presumably) and then do a switch and study their literature with you under the guise of a Bible Study.

    Cigarette companies and MacDonald's don't claim to speak for and be God's nly representatives on earth today. They don't claim that is you don't use their products you will be destroyed and use God to back it up.

    And where exactly would you place the responsibility of people who were raised as children in the WTS. It is all they know.

    I don't for one minute believe that we should dump all responsibility on the shoulders of the WTS. I think that once you get a glimmer of real truth you then make a choice. But due to conditionaing many people never get the glimmer. And for many who do, fear stops them in their tracks. (mind-control doing the nasty on people)

    We, most certainly as adults, once we are out of there, need to claim personal responsiblity for the direction our lives take from this day forward. But I will not accept responsiblity of abusers. Ever. And that most definitely includes spiritual abusers

    BTW welcome to the forum

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    Interesting post spirit walker,

    Blame needent be personally important to you or anyone else. I don't condem you for your view or anything else that goes on in your cranial cavity, that's your personal business. It'd be nice if you woke up from your hippy like sleep and faced some reality though :)

    I'm all for taking personal responsibility and not being obssessed with looking back in anger but let's get real for a moment. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a mind control cult. It can, has and is using classic mind-control techniques to seduce the most intelligent and rational of people. Personally, as one raised in the truth and thus brainwashed from infancy, I find it difficult to understand how any adult could fall for this but I know it to be true.

    SanFranJim sayeth: "If it truly were a matter of free choice, I would completely agree with your post above. Unfortunately, the WTBTS has a track record for failed promises, utilization of mind control techniques through intensive study of their publications, and fear of expressing a difference of opinion through the threat of shunning and expulsion."

    .. and this be but the tip of the iceborg! I am on several boards of management and believe responsibility (blame) for the culture and practices of any organisation rests firmly at the top.

    Perhaps you can tell me; Who else but the WBTS is to take the blame for the corrosive unchristian atmosphere permiating every congregation? Who but the WBTS is to blame for the endless mind-rape of women and children in dreaded interogations conducted by warped old men in the back-room of every Kingdom Hall? Who else is to blamed for the callous rape, mutilation and murder of men, women and children thrown to Dr.Bandas thugs in Malawi? Who else is to blame for disintergating so many families, frienships, marriages? Who but the WBTS is to blame for the ongoing cycle of depression and suicide amoungst bro's and sisters trapped in disonant servitude?

    The case has been tried Spirit Walker - the Men of Brooklyn have been weighed in the balance and found wanting - wanting a head, a heart and a good kick up the date!

    cheers, unclebruce

    Clue: Don't be surprised if responses get heated. These things cut close and deep here - For example; who but members of the Governing Body is to blame for Farkel's arrest and sentence? (for more info I suggest you read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz)

  • avengers
    avengers

    In other words:

    Someone comes up to you, lies to you, wins your trust, promises you things and because you trust him
    you believe him. Is it your fault he lied to you?
    This person would be a deceiver. Same with the Watchtower.
    They deceive people.

    The Watchtower should be sued off this planet for good. Or any other way is ok too.

    Andy

  • spiritwalker
    spiritwalker
    The difference between the WTBTS and the companies mentioned above is that neither McDonald's nor any tobacco company utilize high-mind-control techniques to coerce us into using their brands.

    Sorry, have to take strong disagreement to that. Advertising is and will always be a form of mind control. Colors, Words, Timing and all of those little jingles are set to control your mind into thinking you need a product. The society is no different, is uses the power phrase and words to get you to thinking that your thoughts are really yours, when in fact they are really theirs. Yet, you took it in and decided it was what you wanted. No excuse for a weak mind.

    Someone comes up to you, lies to you, wins your trust, promises you things and because you trust him
    you believe him. Is it your fault he lied to you?

    It's your fault that you accepted it. Hell, if you are going to believe everything someone tells you. Then why not believe you have a true meaning in this country with your one vote. Sorry, again "Personal Responsibility!" It might be a hard fact to face.

    The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a mind control cult. It can, has and is using classic mind-control techniques to seduce the most intelligent and rational of people.

    Interesting, but that is the case of the US government and all other forms of life. Sorry, but once again we are adults and we have to at some point take responsibility for our own actions. You see, this is the over all feeling I get from this board and from former Jehovah's Witnesses. It is the, "always me, everyone is out to get me", attitude. I hate to tell you this, but as an adult you are responsible for your crimes and get punishment, once you are of legal age. Whether or not you mother was to nice to you as a child or your dad hated you. YOU decided to become a Witness and you accept the consequences. It is nice to try and push the blame on something else or the organization. They do entice us with all this, "Paradise" and "Eternal Life" and we want to see ourselves as smarter then the mouse going for the cheese. Yet that is not the case, we can blame them all we want. Yet since the beginning of the organization there has been equal say out there on what they really are. The fact that we choose to only get a one sided view from the organization or family, is our choice and we should not be playing the blame game.

    Who but the WBTS is to blame for the endless mind-rape of women and children in dreaded interogations conducted by warped old men in the back-room of every Kingdom Hall?

    The Watchtower magazine does not say, "rape people", the people who did these actions are responsible for their own actions. Trying to shift hatred from the people and act like the society did it all, is just another false hope. People do what they do, because they at some point choose too. These type of people choose to rape and choose to hurt people. How this subject got on to this post is a little stretching the issue, but I approached it anyway.

    Your argument is like saying the mugging victim is responsible because he was walking in the wrong place or the rape victim is responsible because of what she wore. It is also like blaming the wife who gets beaten by her husband daily.

    Easy answer, mug victim, try following some simple suggestions from the police department and realize the person mugging you is making personal choice too. Wife, you have as much choice to leave as the choice to stay. Fear might be a factor in both, but do not stretch a comment about a religion into some abuse talk, when it has nothing to do with it. Unless you have a personal ax to bury and a point to share that is something you are dealing with as a personal choice.

    In a nutshell, I would say that the Society is emotionally abusive. Is an abuse victim to blame for their abuse? I don't think so.

    The world is emotional abusive and the Society is just like all Christian religions. Why stop at Christianity though, all religions.

    The difference between the WTBTS and the companies mentioned above is that neither McDonald's nor any tobacco company utilize high-mind-control techniques to coerce us into using their brands.

    This was covered to begin with. I have not seen one thought that counters what I am saying. Which is that the society did not make your inner mind say, "yes I will accept this!" You did. You might have done it as a child and thought, "this will make mom and dad happy." Yet as an adult you kept with it and kept going and going and going. If you are here though and out of the religion, I would say you have stepped further into adult responsibility. However, if you still think the society is the one to blame for everything that you did. Then perhaps it is time to blame everything and everyone for everything you do and never accept that you choose any personal choice. It would make life a lot easier and we would feel less guilt. No one has changed my mind, I still see that what I am saying makes sense.

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce
    The Watchtower magazine does not say, "rape people", the people who did these actions are responsible for their own actions

    You have missed the points here spirit walker:

    (you speed reading or just on speed? :/

    One of my key points here is about Management taking responsibility for the culture they create in thier organisations. Have you ever been in a management role? Believe me if the Brooklyn boys wanted to they could stop the back room rape with a few strokes on a keyboard. But of course they won't - back-room mental torture and rape forms an inegral part of their "carrot and stick" control strategy - ever heard the term "theocratic warfare?"

    No not the Watchtower magazine .. I haven't suggested that .. and you're dishonest for implying anything of the sort - since when has the Watchtower magazine been the code-book for Judicial Commitee Proceedure? The Watchtower is for public and gullible consumption. Me thinks you've just revealed yourself as a non-jw (at least one who was never in at the deep end) Would you like a copy of the "Secret Elders Manual?" .. Perhaps I can temp you with the hidden delights of a Branch Overseers Manual? Ever heard of people called Circuit and District Overseers?

    You have an awesome amount to learn here spirit walker but have you the humility and strength of character to listen?

    unclebruce.

    ps: who said anything about hate? How about reading my post again slowly and objectively? In other words: I suggest you calm down and try paying attention to the words as expressed. Hate is one of the most corrosive things there is to a human soul. I hate no-one .. hate does nothing for me .. I'm just one big bundle of love but that doesn't stop this big fluffy bundle of love calling a fascist arsehole a fascist arsehole (or for that matter calmly executing someone like Hitler if the oportunity arose :)

    pps: looks like you've bought yourself a busy time defending the indefenca-bull so i'll leave ya to it. You have a hard time blaming the Watchtower now you have a hard time defending it - funny ol' world ain't it.

  • Been there
    Been there

    Interesting topic Spirit walker.

    I understand what you are saying but feel you are making it way too black and white. I was raised a witness and could'nt wait to be 18 and out. I was'nt offered the choice I had to steal it.

    There are way too many people here who are not given the choice to just leave an abusive religion, that would be too easy. They are however offered the choice to leave an abusive religion AND your entire family. Sometimes that price is too high to pay. Some people are second, third and fourth generation. Like it or not the society does have an all or nothing policy. You will say.......those people have a choice to not shun the leaver. True, the leaver however does not have the choice to not be shunned by the people they love. Some can't just walk away without blaming their pain on something else because their pain IS caused by something out of their control.

  • Guest 77
    Guest 77

    I'm trying to understand both sides of the issue here. Its not a cut and dry answer for some due to circumstances. For children, what say do they have? For adults it differs. One's maturity both mentally and emotionally play a major role.

    Deception (teachings) and influence (environment) play a role in how we make choices even in one's personal finances. Yes, contributing factors come into play. We live in a society that has drug us into complacency. Why, just yesterday I attended a community business meeting (as an observer) and this was their major weakness, taking responsibility and complacency. It took these business people 'over' two hours to finally organize a committee. If they don't take the bull by the horns, the town council will 'control' their business and they would be up the creek without a paddle. This example applies in personal life.

    We all need time and the right tools to make the right choices. I'm a strong believer in 'free' choice, that is, to be my own person and not to be controlled by others. Interesting topic for discussion.

    Does your name 'spiritwalker' have anything to do with Native Americans?

    Guest 77

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