How Low Have Ex-JW?s Fallen? (page 2)

Mindchild

Craig...there is no universal answer that fits all to answer that question. Judgement of how far something should go in terms of freedom of expression obviously has several variables, including the target audience, the topic, and past poster histories. Just as an bug bite on your arm is more sensitive to touch than other areas, a remark from one poster to another can be exceptionally painful to a certain individual from another. The elements of censorship in my perspective shouldn't be so focused on filtering out the splinters we get from others but more of the rafters coming your way. Just my thoughts.

Hi Cathy...kind regards to you as well.

Phantom Stranger said:

we have to stop blaming the WTS and say, OK, time for me to be responsible for what I choose to do, and for you to be responsible for what you choose to do.

I have no problem with that at all.

Sloan...aww thanks. At least I have a sister now, but where are Mom and Dad?

ScoobySnax I left the Witnesses because I couldn't tolerate the thought of my being a hypocrite with what I discoverd about them. Hypocrites suck in my book. I have a lot of tolerance for world views and beliefs vastly different than mine until the person infected with them decides to punish me or someone I care about for my or our apparent violation of their moral or belief standards. It is especially disgusting when the said offender is a hypocrite to boot, and disfellowships you because you don't live up to their moral standards. When someone takes a swing at you physically, you can react by ducking; or defending yourself. The same thing applies in our social interactions. If you are gossiped about, put down by others, and defamed you can try to ignore it or you can rightfully be critical of the individuals who play these games. My post above was a slight rebuff for what I've seen others do to one of my friends on this forum. What you see here in print on this forum is only the tip of the iceberg, there is a lot of bitterness, stupidity, hatefullness, and Bull Shit running neck deep offline between lots of people who are here or who were here. Personally, I was disgusted with this behavior when I was a Witness and I'm disgusted with it now. I'm really leaning towards believing that people who want to recover from their negative experiences as a JW would be best advised to tread here and other ex-dub boards lightly, or they too can become fresh meat for entertainment.

Mindchild

ScoobySnax

Mind.

Maybe you have found your answer then.

Scoob,

Nickey

Mindchild,

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I've been seeing the same thing and have tried to speak up on it. But you are right, people who are trying to recover should be very cafeful when going to any ex-jw sites. I've learned that the hard way.

Mindchild

SanFranciscoJim

I wanted to add that you made some good points in your reply. I certainly agree that people recover from their experience at different rates, and you may be right that a hopeful "emergence" is just that, hope. But what I really found interesting in what you said is this:

Unlike the active JW community, we are not "Borg". We are no longer like-minded, speaking in a single voice. We have given ourselves the gift of freedom of thought. What's more, we are in the process of learning that if our current belief system doesn't work, we can say so and continue our search elsewhere without fear of formal shunning or expulsion. In other words, we can change our minds.

I've recognized how much I've changed over the years, and especially the last few years. I'm really now at the point where I'm not even thinking so much of myself as being an ex-JW any more. I've healed, I tried my hand at helping others get out of this dips**t religion and recover but I realize I've got burn out in a big way and just stepped back in the door a few months ago to make a few friends and get in touch with old friends.

I guessed I've changed my mind, and maybe that is a damn good thing. I'm going to be posting less as days go by.

Kind Regards,

Skipper

JamesThomas

I hear what you're saying Skipper. Things are not perfect or ideal, and there does seem to be a Witness-type-control-mentality just under the surface. That said... Please don't lose heart or become discouraged about coming here. I have seen too many good people with intelligence and kindness I admire leave here. We need you here. There are new people coming through all the time, and all of us can learn from your exceptional posts. Think of the good you can do. Calm down. Go drink a good IPA or something. j

jgnat

I ditto James Thomas. I think kindness can overwhelm with sheer numbers.

onacruse

Mindchild:

Craig...there is no universal answer that fits all to answer that question. Judgement of how far something should go in terms of freedom of expression obviously has several variables, including the target audience, the topic, and past poster histories. Just as an bug bite on your arm is more sensitive to touch than other areas, a remark from one poster to another can be exceptionally painful to a certain individual from another. The elements of censorship in my perspective shouldn't be so focused on filtering out the splinters we get from others but more of the rafters coming your way. Just my thoughts.

It is very subjective, isn't it? For example, I've had to ask myself such questions as, "Do I know this person? Have I talked to them? Am I taking offense at otherwise very potentially useful responses, simply because I think that poster may be hurt? Do I think this whole conversation is in 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one'? Do the sensitivities of the few, or even the one, justify locking a thread?"

It's a challenging balance, to say the very least. And my only answer is that motive is the key element.

In that respect, imo the question is not "how low have exJWs fallen?" but "how high can exJWs go?" As long as our motive is to honor our mutual and individual freedoms, within the parameters of a reasonable ethic, then what more can we do?

I look forward to your response.

Craig

Flowerpetal

Mindchild,

Please keep posting regularly. I understand and agree with this thread you started. I may not have responded to a lot of your posts, but I enjoy ALL of them.

I think the x-jws who seem to be "feral" as some used to even admit, come from many backgrounds, environments, lifestyles, attitudes, etc. which makes them the way they are and maybe they fit in the org, when they were witnesses, but now that they are out, they don't know how to handle themselves, IMHO.

Joyzabel

why does this phrase seem to negate your post?

still judgmental pricks

pettygrudger

If you are gossiped about, put down by others, and defamed you can try to ignore it or you can rightfully be critical of the individuals who play these games. My post above was a slight rebuff for what I've seen others do to one of my friends on this forum. What you see here in print on this forum is only the tip of the iceberg, there is a lot of bitterness, stupidity, hatefullness, and Bull Shit running neck deep offline between lots of people who are here or who were here. Personally, I was disgusted with this behavior when I was a Witness and I'm disgusted with it now. I'm really leaning towards believing that people who want to recover from their negative experiences as a JW would be best advised to tread here and other ex-dub boards lightly, or they too can become fresh meat for entertainment.

I don't believe these types of behaviors can be solely attributed to being a JW.......I truly believe that this type of behavior is human kind in general. When "cliques" form, or even loosely based social groups, there will always be different "roles" that are fulfilled in the group. Gossip in particular is something so common, its unfair to hang the JW mantle over it - how many "worldly" people do you know that gossip? Its common place to discuss what other people are doing, regardless of whether one agree's or disagrees with the behavior/personality/action. Its like creating an interactive soap opera, and for some people, its human nature.

In society, there will always be people who will defame, slam & play games with the unsuspecting in order to give themselves whatever pleasure/high/feeling of being better - whatever the reason. The trick is to learn who the "players" are, and to avoid them, building as was stated by another poster, a circle of trusted & true companions. actually, I believe that most players are so by "accident". In an effort to have a contribution to any particular group they are interested in, their offering is usually something that hurts/slanders someone else. And the "group" at large eats it up as titilating excitement. No one is actually trying to "hurt" - just giving themselves a little excitement & something to talk about.

Actually, none of the behaviors I've seen here are any different than in real life. Perhaps to some extent, its our own perceptions of what these db's, and the loosely based social groups that form around them, should be?

But for those that end up being the sacrificial lambs for others intensity junkie fix, it does hurt. I have a feeling that most, if not all, extremely active participants have been crucified, slandered, libeled or hurt in some way. What makes every one of them stronger is their willingess to continue to contribute despite these obstacles. I know I have been on the receiving end, and it made me stronger.

How Low Have Ex-JW?s Fallen?

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