People who are happy in the org
You are correct with this statement BUT, the Governing Body). These are the ones chosen by Jehovahs Holy spirit, correct? Jehovah chooses these ones to direct the sheep but some are living a double life
Yep, there is an elder in our old cong that's just been done for some seriously nasty stuff on his pc. Googling his name led me here fwiw.
Strangely enough, none of my 'worldly' mates have ever been done for that. Quelle surprise.
Rather difficult topic. On one hand it's like the movie Shallow Hal where near the end he's upset that he had been awoken from Tony Robbins spell which had made Jack Black (the lead character Hal) only see inner beauty.
The character Hal eludes to the fact that it would have been better to stay under this spell than realizing the, although very beautiful inwardly Gwyneth Paltrow (lead female character Rosemary), love of his life was rather obese and not the 10 as he perceived.
I've gone round and round on this one. In the end I come to one very important conclusion. It's good til it's bad. What I mean by that is the spell you're unknowingly under can seem or even be happy or joyous until there's some event that chips away at this perceived happiness.
What's the event? A loved one is treated harshly or even disfellowshipped. A major injury or illness strikes and your very life is at stake as you must refuse blood . You child is in danger and the mishandling by the body and the organization leave a very poor taste in your mouth.
These things suddenly make the spell you're under not so nice and on top of it the guilt that it puts on you may cause you to make a decision that could put your child's future at risk or worse yet his or yours at the risk of losing life.
As such if this spell is broken, when these serious matters arise the guilt is lessened at the very least and you may actually save someone's life...literally.
Although I don't think cramming tings down someone's neck is the correct approach, being honest and direct is. At a minimum it may cause the person to make a more reasonable decision than a hard and fast one that lacks direct biblical support.
"It's good til it's bad. What I mean by that is the spell you're unknowingly under can seem or even be happy or joyous until there's some event that chips away at this perceived happiness. What's the event? A loved one is treated harshly or even disfellowshipped. A major injury or illness strikes and your very life is at stake as you must refuse blood . You child is in danger and the mishandling by the body and the organization leave a very poor taste in your mouth."
This is a true statement...they are happy as long as all is well...but let something happen that they feel is unfair, you'll see a different side to them. I'm also tired of them saying...well they are imperfect. I've come across situations where a brother may have said or done something...I would say, I wonder why so & so...but the friends will say, well, he is imperfect...but when it happens to them, they say something entirely different...I told them I learned the statement from you guys...Well, he or she is imperfect. When a one of the friends come to me to say something about the org. or an Elder, etc, I'll just chant what they chanted to me...Well, they are imperfect, & they'll say well, it's more than that....& they want you to agree. But, when it's your turn, they'll tell your...The Chant...so I told them one day...was is that excuse good for you & not me...(more crickets). I don't think any of them are chosen by God, even mass murderers feel they are chosen to do what they do....that's kind of scary isn't it. Sinners & Saints, using the same line & the same God....There is a certain breed of person that is attracted to this org. Why I'm here, who knows...I wasn't depressed on anything when I came into the truth. I knew that had some of the truth but not all...& I love my congregation....I know some of us are crazy but most are nice crazy...But I wouldn't sleep on any of them....I pray to God to say, If this is not where I belong...help...but don't have me DF'd...
tor1500 -Yes, it is different when you are the one in the hot seat. I have seen that before,many times.
My spouse and I were born in. We come from 2 very loving families (parents were very normal witnesses). We always thought that once we left the organization, we would be miserable. Not so. Just the opposite. Once we were away from all the critical people and all the judgement, we began to feel MUCH better.
We are watching the majority of our family (still ins) taking anti depressants and washing them down with booze. . But wait...they are part of the happiest people on earth. How come my spouse and I seem to be the only ones in the family with there sh** together? We should be miserable. Things that make you go....hmmm!
Try having kids. Try wondering if you are failing them by not screaming TTATT..
If people are happy believing un-truths what's that harm? Should I squash their fantasies? I choose not to shatter dreams indiscriminately. I must, however, speak up against the WTBTS when they lie.
What's going to happen? I don't know.
As others have said, it is very complicated for people to get out of the JW religion - and this is people who are disenchanted with the whole thing. Can you imagine somebody who is content? They aren't going anywhere.
Only when and IF they have a personal issue or crisis will they even sit up and take notice that maybe something is wrong. This would only be the first step in leaving.
I think it is much harder for born-ins because they have a larger social network there and may even be employed by JWs.
What do you think would happen to somebody who had a business and employed JWs and/or had JW clients AND one day decided they wanted out of the religion? Spiteful JWs would pull the rug out from under them in a New York minute!
It's the person or persons with no connections, family or business, who can walk away from the JW religion fairly easily - and even that might not be totally "painless".
Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful comments . I do get how difficult it is for someone to leave ( again see Cognac's thread as one example ). Also I realise that most JWs only " wake up " when faced with some personal problem with the org .
That said lots of people talk about planting seeds in the mind's of active JWs - even those who appear happy . Many who know TTATT but choose to stay in for personal reasons like to drop hints or ask awkward questions to get cognitive dissonance kicking in ! .
I know a few Witnesses who do SEEM happy at least and sometimes I think " Why bother even trying to rock their boat ? " But I know a couple who are born ins who go along with the " It's the best way to live and what else would we do ? " way of thinking who have a son who is a drug addict , alcoholic and has suicidal thoughts .
To their credit they are standing by him and trying to help him through his third try at detox but they just cannot see that the experiences he had growing up in the org are largely responsible for his problems . They have a daughter who appears to have come through thus far unscathed .
Now if someone had , years ago , tried counter witnessing to them and drops seeds of doubt about the org into their thinking would their son have a different life today ? Unanswerable I know , but it made me think .
Just because someone seems content as a Witness should we not try, at least , to plant those seeds and ask those questions actively , nor just when we are questioned . Would it possibly save someone else from misery in the future ?
I disagree with Phizzy because I think people can be happy as JWs. I think I was happy.
But the opening post makes an excellent point. Just because some people are happy doesn't deny the fact that the system overall creates a lot of misery. So maybe it is ethical and justified to rob some happy people of their belief in order to undermine the system as a whole that creates so much unhappiness.
Having said all that, it appears pretty theoretical because people who are happy as JWs are rarely are willing to have an open conversation anyway. They are supremely smug that they have got the truth right up until you puncture their belief on some aspect, at which point they'll close down and end the conversation.
Slim , thanks for your post . I notice that you say that you THINK that you were happy . So may I ask the question if you were happy what woke you up to TTATT, and are you happier now without the pressures of being a Witness ?( sorry , two questions! )
I was happy too. I think the key to happiness is always making the best of whatever situation you are in. I can say I am happier as NOT a witness that is for damn sure and that I have realized that I never had the JW packaged happiness they preach because it's not real. Looking back now I can separate the happy person I am with or without the organization and jw brand of happiness that was a fake smile.