People who are happy in the org

by jhine 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  jhine

  I don't know if I can put my musings clearly into words , but I' ll try to be coherant !

  On a couple of other threads lately folk have said that they have no wish to disenchant JWs who are happy in the org . Those who have no personal problems and are content to stay in , thinking that it is good way to live and the nearest thing to the Truth .

  Now I am all for religious freedom , so my thoughts present me with a dilemma .

  How many needless deaths have been caused by those who are " happy in the org " ? How many people on here are having their lives made miserable ( Cognac's thread ) by people who seem to be unable to comprehend the misery they cause because, of course , what the org teaches is completely right and loving .

  I know many JWs who do seem very happy and blissfully unaware of the carnage caused by shunning and the splitting of families . They are convinced that the path they follow is really the best way of living . I have asked myself if it would be cruel to try to wake them up to the deception and control to which they are subjected . After all it's their life , their choice .

  Then I wonder if these nice , genuine people are causing hell in someone else's life or may be responsible for a needless death because of the path they follow . What about their children , how many will be damaged by a JW upbringing ?

  So any thoughts anyone ? Should the people who are happy and fulfilled by being Witnesses have their dreams shattered ? .

  Jan
• 

  freemindfade

  It's not a simple situation. I have faded pretty far out but i still associate with witnesses I really like and I love those people. If and when they speak of religion I am silent. In trying to tell an active witness about the real truth of what they believe, you typically will accomplish little more than causing them to put up the cult shields and go deeper in.

  In their mind they have been conditioned to put you into a lose lose situation. yes the cult ruins lives, but to reference the Matrix, why didn't they just wake everyone up? In the movie they said it was too much for them. Some of us are in position of outright activism, and some of us in a much more subtle and organic way.

  I refuse to speak to a JW about anything religious unless I feel they are genuinely ready to open their mind, and most just aren't yet. But when they are their are good people that need someone to show them the way out.

  Shattering their dreams is good, most of us had to do it to ourselves, but how you do it and when makes the difference of driving them further in or helping them out.
• 

  James Mixon

  My daughter and her husband are very happy, but I wonder about their kids?

  The key in their happiness, they are not fanatical. It seems to me the younger ones

  are taking a different path. My family members who are JW's, Christian and Mormon

  are very happy. The funny thing they can't understand how can I be so happy in life. LOL

  I can't say the same for my other daughter, she is one of those fanatical JW, but I will be there

  for her if she ever wake up are become balance.
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  My daughter and her husband are very happy, but I wonder about their kids?

  They'd likely have greater odds of being "happy" if they are not poor and struggling to survive (while waiting forever for the Big A to fix it all for them). See that they get a good education. Funny how fewer financial problems (not to be confused with being rich) tend to make life a little happier.
  

  Doc
  
• 

  done4good

  It is really not a matter of what is better or worse for them, or even those affected by their beliefs, (such as innocents being shunned by believers). It is a matter of what is probable, and the potential downside that might result if you miss your target, (and you likely will).
  

  Unfortunately, it is highly improbable that a believing JW, (good life in the organization or not), will accept TTATT openly, without doing so on their own volition. JWs are not unique in this area. All believers are such, because at some level, they want to be. As long as this is the case, you will not have success, and only cause frustration, (or worse), for yourself, and may even cause them to become even more entrenched, as that type of response is often a first instinct of someone experiencing acute cognitive dissonance. TTATT will cause cognitive dissonance.

  People will research on their own when they are ready. That is why we have resources such as this website.
  

  To use an oft quoted Buddhist proverb, "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear".

  d4g
  
• 

  Alive!

  I have a beautiful friend who is intelligent, very capable of thinking logically .....she was given a hard time by myself when I showed her loads of evidence which made the blood doctrine fall apart and other issues. At first she listened and was empathetic, saying she could see and feel my distress. Then.....she closed right down and gave me a poor analogy to explain the difference between accepting fractions and whole blood...completely ignoring that 'sacred blood' had to be donated for fractions, possible stored etc.

  She lives in a warm world of love, care and affection...with adult children and grandchildren and years of trusted friendships. She'd have NO-ONE outside the org. I'm sure I rattled her cage - and really, the conversations we had must cause a degree of CD, and unwelcome thoughts may need to be suppressed.

  I had access to a worldwide network of people..... Some who I loved deeply.

  The pain of losing my 'family' of over 20 years has been distressing beyond words.

  My freind would cite the security and Christian love of the org - but really, something is terribly wrong with the non negotiable indoctrination and the disturbing aspects of the named leadership.

  I saw and heard WT leaders speak at the ARC - I'd imagine they would have gone into that courtroom having prayed.....and then in front of the world they lied and used doublespeak. We heard them.

  Four families experienced SIX suicides just in my congregation, three families lost children to lives as drug addicts, prostitution and one young woman ended up in prison. I remember these sweet young faces....no- one really did what they should to help these kids, just waited for them to 'come back to jehovah' - they never did.

  Three circuit overseers left their wives for other women and later it was revealed one was a serial abuser.

  I remember a speaker once saying 'brothers, it's a jungle out there' - and I thought, it's a jungle IN HERE'

  But what can you do?
• 

  James Mixon

  Desirous: Yes that is what I see with my daughter friends (all JW), they are seeking

  better jobs and they are getting their kids more involved in school activities, but you

  wonder how many of their kids( her friends kids) will stay in the borg. There are no

  window washer among her friends (there is nothing wrong with being a window washer, it's a

  honest living). The kids she grew up with are fireman,nurses, in marketing,disability claim adjuster

  in other words they are not pioneers, standing on street corners. There is definitely a shift taking

  place among the young ones.
• 

  Phizzy

  I rarely, if ever, get a chance to talk to a JW in a way that would lead them to TTATT, as I am known in my area, several Congregations wide, as a "spiritual danger".

  The moral dilemma for me comes in when people have devoted their lives to the Borg, and yet I detect an underlying disquiet and sadness in them that tempts me to try to free them. This is true of a couple of members of my JW family.

  If they are relatively young, say under 60, and have a chance at some life of quality I may well try, but without doubt, those really old ones I feel it is, on balance, best to leave them where they are.

  Yes, they will die in the useless cult, but they will die feeling they have "lived the best way of life", not knowing that is the opposite of the truth.

  Having said that, I have vowed to always speak truth, if I speak, and if I detect a very real desire to know what is true I will show the person how to find it, directing them to JWFacts may well be the first step.

  May I add: I do not believe that anybody can be truly happy in the Org, true happiness only lies outside, and far away from the Org.
• 

  tor1500

  Hi All,

  I'm kind of new, was away for a while but now back...I'm a witness, & here is my observation. Many of you know of the TMS School, Right? On most of the demo's the sisters do have to do with "Sadness", Depression" along those lines. The talk usually starts out like this...Hi sister So & So...How are you ? Then the householder says, Ah, Sister, I'm going through this, I'm sad because of that...I'm depressed because of this. So doesn't that sound that only ones attracted to the truth are the depressed souls & nobody is attracted to the Truth if they are happy. Only once or twice I saw a talk that was developed in a positive tone...The brother told her it was good, but. So I spoke to her later (young sister) & she said, she didn't want to develop the talk like a "Debbie Downer"...she wanted to put a positive spin on it. I'm a happy witness, not because I'm a witness but because Jehovah brings me peace. I deal with everyday as it comes. Having faith does not exempt you from not being happy all the time...we all have good days & bad days. What I noticed is most witnesses are sick in one way or another. I haven't met a well adjusted one yet. What depresses me being a witness, is that they are blinded by the org. & allow them to tell them what the scriptures mean. They are afraid to speak up. The truth has lead me to the real truth. CARE FOR ONE ANOTHER, EVEN IF THEY AREN'T WITNESSES. Yes, some witnesses are happy & that's only because things are going their way, just wait until their faith gets tested..When someone you know dies, they say well, we have the hope of everlasting life & to see our dead ones again...they can tell you that, but when it happens to them, they say, this world is horrible...Satan is so wicked, & so on. Most of the time they just say, I'm hanging in there. For some this is the last stop for faith, if the org. disappoints them, they are done. They put all their faith & stock in The ORG. not God. Just like the Jews...they couldn't follow God unless they could see something..something to point to, to say, That's God..Same as JW's, they need the FDS, Bethel, literature....They can't walk by faith & not sight. To be honest that's most people. It is difficult to believe in something you can 't see. When JW's (me included) knock on doors....you never know who'll you'll meet, but if it's on the weekend, it's folks just trying to make a living & only have 2 days, to do the stuff they can't do during the week. If you knock on a door on a weekday, most folks are working, the others are either disabled, nuts/crazy...or depressed & can't function in this everyday life. So what are we really attracting? This is a religion of lost souls that never will be found, whatever is going on in them, will never be changed, it was before they became a witness. I look around my congregation & there isn't anyone that doesn't suffer from something or another...I'm very blessed that I don't have too many issues & if I do, I don't subject them to others, if possible. I may not have a good day but I don't go in the hall & don't speak, I may not be my happy self but I'm not rude. When folks don't speak or are rude or that they don't seem the same, the friends go, Well, they must be going through something...that just seems to be the chant...like that should excuse them. Ain't nobody in this world that's not going through one thing or another...Jesus, only knew he had a short time here, he knew he was going to die, but was he ever rude, NO. Had anyone in the bible say, I saw Jesus, but he didn't speak..NO. And he had more on his mind then we do. Not to say we don't have bad days, but no excuse for being rude. I also know everyone isn't the same & we all handle things differently. That's a given, but just a simple Hi, that's all, and after that, you can go back to your problem. So, are JW's happy, some are & some not..& that's the world itself...Some folks are happy & some folks no matter what...They will never be happy. How happy could one be if all you do is say, well, this is the last days....& the days just keep coming...& you have been saying this for almost 30 or so years...Eventually, your happiness, just might fade. Some are ok, because, being in the congregation is the only so-called love they have ever experienced, some don't even get love from their families, etc. & We all know that JW's love bomb you in the beginning...but again, we all know after you are baptized, they move on to the next unbaptized person...& if one is not secure in ones self it could be a let down. The halls are just a smaller taste of what the world is really like. Backbiting, lying, adultery, you name it...it's in the org. Satan is everywhere & is free to go where he wants...I've said it on a few topix...what I notice is that most like being in the org. as a badge of honor...they are in God's org. That's it right there. They could start believing in the trinity & a few eyebrows would raise but folks would still stay. We can't put any faith in man....they will disappoint you every time...

  Tor
• 

  ToesUp

  "The halls are just a smaller taste of what the world is really like. Backbiting, lying, adultery, you name it...it's in the org. "

  You are correct with this statement BUT, when the men in the organization (Elders, MS's, CO's, even the Governing Body). These are the ones chosen by Jehovahs Holy spirit, correct? Jehovah chooses these ones to direct the sheep but some are living a double life. Would you hire any accountant that was well know to have major financial problems or fly on a airplane with a pilot who is known to have a major drinking problem? This is where the hypocrisy comes in. We are tired of hearing, "it's an imperfect organization, made up of imperfect men." I don't buy it anymore and never did. If these imperfect men are chosen by Jehovahs holy spirit, why are these ones cheating on their wives, cheating on their taxes, sending their children to college (a WT article once said that those ones sending their children to college lack faith). How can a man direct the congregation when he lacks faith? The hypocrisy is so blatant! You do get a cross section of people anywhere you go but these men are chosen by Jehovahs holy spirit. No Excuses for some of their actions!