No Kingdom Halls would definitely work!

by John Aquila 35 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower would dovetail with what some of us have heard... that maybe 70-80% of the R&F privately wish things were different and/or they could leave.

    I'm thinking more like 98% wish it but can never verbally express it because the threat to their well fare and loss of corporation support group of fellow dupes

    And John keep up the good writing whether true or not i don't rightly care it is just a very interesting topic.

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower
    It is good to imagine what people in a relaxed mood among friends might say to this topic if brought up and I do feel it is a kindness to get them to be thinking in this direction now that things have esculated financially in the negative direct for the corporation.
  • zarco
    John, with all due respect, how much beer did you drink?
  • WingCommander

    John-A gets a few too many Coronas in him, and HE thinks he's the F&DS, dispensing spiritual liquor at the proper time. I have a feeling he was anointed with tequila instead of oil.

    Those pesky WT booze goggles, are at it again!!!!

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower

    God I wonder what the majority of would answer to this and other questions like it under the truth serums like i don't know, sodium thiopental or something.

    The famed chemical sodium pentothal, which is commonly known as truth serum, has been a mainstay of spy flicks for decades. In real life, scientists have tested it on spies, psychiatric patients, pregnant women, and suspected criminals. They all talked, but did they say something meaningful? Or was it just what the people around them wanted to hear?
    Like heroin, sodium pentothal is a brand name. The drug was manufactured and trademarked by Abbott Laboratories, and its free-for-all name is sodium thiopental. It's a barbiturate, a drug that acts on the central nervous system, which it depresses to calm anxiety, induce drowsiness, eliminate pain, and sometimes entirely knock someone out. That is not why it's become world famous. Sodium pentothal made its name in detective, spy, and pulp novels, where it was famously used as a 'truth serum.' Novelists weren't making it up. Psychiatrists and police officers both swore by it in the first half of the twentieth century - but which of its powers were fact and which were fiction is still debated.
    The Innocent Origin of Truth Serum
    The maddening thing about Truth Serum, and the damage its wrought over the years, is that its conceptual originator, Dr Robert House, meant it to exonerate prisoners. During his time in obstetric wards around 1915, he noticed the drug administered to women during childbirth, scopolamine, had a strange effect on his patients. They spoke automatically and unthinkingly, responding to any question. His mind went to prisoners who, under interrogation, maintained claims of innocence. That's easy enough to do when jail would be uppermost in their mind, but if a barbituate could make women forget that they were having a baby, it could certainly wipe ulterior motives from a person's mind. So if asked where they were the night before, if they answered automatically, 'at home,' then they couldn't have been out robbing a bank.What truths does "truth serum" sodium pentothal actually reveal?The process by which sodium pentothal came to be used to obtain confessions of guilt was a circuitous one. The particular compound was invented in 1934 by Ernest H. Volwiler and Donalee L. Tabern, both of whom were trying to invent another pain killer. Although it did relax a patient, and enough of it knocked a person out, sodium pentothal didn't kill pain as much as they had hoped. It wasn't ideal for surgeons, but it came to be used by shrinks. Psychiatrists during the World Wars saw some soldiers with acute shell shock who either had great difficulty speaking or were unable to speak at all. Earlier barbiturates were used during therapy, but since it did not completely incapacitate a patient as much as they did, sodium pentothal was an ideal drug to be used in programs as an anti-anxiety drug which allowed the soldiers to speak and to eventually recover from their experience - provided addiction was kept at bay and their psychiatrist was conscientious. These programs, during which the drug was injected and the scientist asked questions, were surprisingly progressive, in that the drugs wore off and allowed the soldier to go back out into the community, instead of taking long stays in a psychiatric facility. The idea was to remove inhibitions, including fear of reprisal, and let the soldier talk, then let him recover and go back out, fully integrated into the community. It is still, at times, administered in the UK for the treatment of phobias.
    The Twisted Side of Truth
    These psychiatrists consulted at police stations, and it wasn't long before people began making the connection between removing a soldier's fear of past events and removing a criminal's fear of getting caught was made. Truth serum has had no real history in the courts. Courts generally haven't been kind to barbiturate confessions. They have however, recognized confessions when the fact that barbiturates had been administered to the suspect went quietly unmentioned. Throughout the first half of the twentieth century, scandals popped up when investigating officials found that police had administered such drugs to suspects. Even if the person never mentioned anything of substance while under the influence, they generally woke up with no memory of anything that happened. A signed confession waved in their face might induce an amnesic suspect to talk, or to incriminate themselves as the only way to save themselves from a harsh sentence.What truths does "truth serum" sodium pentothal actually reveal?Spies at least tested out the benefits of sodium pentothal, sodium amytal, and even good old scopolamine, was tested by the CIA and other spy organizations. They used it on spies they captured, and on their own agents, hoping to catch a double agent in the ranks. Scopolamine was the most frequently used, because it not only wiped out memory during the session, but just previous to it as well, so a person wouldn't know the situation that led up to their memory loss. Just after September 11th, people began talking about administering it to suspected terrorists in custody.
    While police officers and spies were attempting to get confessions from criminals, psychiatrists attempted to convince their patients that they had been the victims of crimes. Sodium pentothal use had slowly mutated over the years. While under the influence, soldiers would relate extraordinary stories of their time in the war, and of the time before that. Many doctors were shocked at the abuse that some soldiers had suffered as children. Doctors began to ask about it, and even expect it, and since sodium pentothal left a patient confused and semi-coherent, it led to misunderstandings. One of the most famous of these was the infamousSybil multiple personality case, which sprung from a young woman under the influence of barbiturates telling her psychiatrists about a tonsillectomy that she had undergone as a child. The incident seemed like an assault to Cornelia Wilbur, her doctor. The doctor probed for more details, which were supplied by Sybil, and worked up a case history that changed psychiatry.
    But Does It Work?
    Well, it might. If someone is dead set against telling your their secrets it might make them so disoriented that they'll spill something. It's just that, to make it at all effective, you have to positively know what you're looking for already, because if they tell you that, they'll generally tell you a lot of other things as well. And you'll have to work on your tone, because someone under the influence of any of the 'truth drugs' will most likely tell you what you want to hear. The drugs make people a little more obliging, but mostly they suppress the parts of the brain that have to kick into gear if a person is to assess what's wrong with a question, articulate it, and assert themselves to their questioner. It's easier just to let their imagination go with the flow and tell the questioner exactly what they want to hear.

    A "truth serum" is a colloquial name for any of a range of psychoactive medications used to obtain information from subjects who are unable or unwilling to provide it otherwise. Any information from the truth serum report is corroborated by further investigation. They have been used in the course of investigating civil and criminal cases, and for the evaluation ofpsychotic patients in the practice of psychiatry.[1] That application was first documented by Dr. William Bleckwenn in 1930,[2] and it still has selected uses today. In the latter context, the controlled administration of intravenous hypnotic medications is called "narcosynthesis" or "narcoanalysis." It may be used to procure diagnostically – or therapeutically – vital information, and to provide patients with a functional respite from catatonia or mania.[3][4]
    ruth serums have been used by the Central Intelligence Agency as seen in the U.S. Army and CIA interrogation manuals declassified by the Pentagon in 1996.[citation needed] In 1963, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that confessions produced as a result of ingestion of truth serum were "unconstitutionally coerced" and therefore inadmissible.[22] The viability of forensic evidence produced from "truth sera" has been addressed in lower courts – judges and expert witnesses have generally agreed that they are not reliable for lie detection.[23]

    "Early in [the 20th] century physicians began to employ scopolamine, along with morphine and chloroform, to induce a state of "twilight sleep" during childbirth. A constituent of henbane, scopolamine was known to produce sedation and drowsiness, confusion and disorientation, incoordination, and amnesia for events experienced during intoxication. Yet physicians noted that women in twilight sleep answered questions accurately and often volunteered exceedingly candid remarks. In 1922 it occurred to Robert House, a Dallas, Texas, obstetrician, that a similar technique might be employed in the interrogation of suspected criminals, and he arranged to interview under scopolamine two prisoners in the Dallas county jail whose guilt seemed clearly confirmed. Under the drug, both men denied the charges on which they were held; and both, upon trial, were found not guilty."[24]

    "The salient points that emerge from this discussion are the following. No such magic brew as the popular notion of truth serum exists. The barbiturates, by disrupting defensive patterns, may sometimes be helpful in interrogation, but even under the best conditions they will elicit an output contaminated by deception, fantasy, garbled speech, etc. A major vulnerability they produce in the subject is a tendency to believe he has revealed more than he has. It is possible, however, for both normal individuals and psychopaths to resist drug interrogation; it seems likely that any individual who can withstand ordinary intensive interrogation can hold out in narcosis. The best aid to a defense against narco-interrogation is foreknowledge of the process and its limitations. There is an acute need for controlled experimental studies of drug reaction, not only to depressants but also to stimulants and to combinations of depressants, stimulants, and ataraxics."[24]

  • Ignoranceisbliss
    John Aquila oh where art thou???

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