Disturbance during Memorial 2016.

by Ben131895 53 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Pete Zahut

  This kind of thing makes me cringe a little.

  To me, people should be able to teach/preach whatever they believe within the walls of their own building (or rented stadium) without being confronted by those who disagree with them. Once they step out the door and start teaching/preaching in public places, at peoples doors or start asking people questions about their beliefs, they are fair game as far as opening themselves up to hearing opposing beliefs/opinions.

  I understood what the guy in the video was talking about only because after being on this site, his alternate un JW like line of thinking on the matter of the memorial, is familiar to me . To the folks in the audience, their train of thought is elsewhere at the moment and this guy very likely confirmed all the paranoid ideas they have about those who are simply former JW's.

  I've heard an older interview with the this guy some time ago and he seemed quite well spoken and balanced for the most part. He seems to have declined as far as being a stable person. What can you really tell from a short video but I was surprised how poorly he came across on this particular one. I guess the bottom line is that it bothers me that because I'm no longer a JW, this is what people think I've become a part of, especially when I've made sure to maintain my personal dignity whenever I've had dealings with them. (just my 2 cents)
  
• 

  Village Idiot

  From a previous post that I made:

  Right after my disfellowshipping I joined a “phone tree” of ex-Witnesses. A phone tree is a network of people with each others’ phone numbers and something they share in common. This was well before the Internet. On that phone tree I got in touch with ex-Witnesses from coast to coast (U.S.) and all the way up to Canada. I got in touch with James Penton, Richard Rawee and even Ray Franz (before he wrote his books).

  On one occasion I called an ex-elder from Maine to have a talk. He politely excused himself saying that he had had a very rough day tending to and cleaning the blood of a disfellowshipped girl who attempted suicide. That broke something in me and I resolved to do something about it.

  Soon after that I went to the Memorial. When the ceremony was ended I walked up to the table with the emblems and tipped it over spilling onto the floor and breaking the plates and wine glasses.

  I never even learned the name of that girl or why she was disfellowshipped.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Normally I would say,not a good idea..

  After seeing it,I thought..

  .

  .........

  .

  I still wouldn`t do it though..

  Can`t be bothered.......LOL!!..
  
• 

  Island Man

  Some say such activism is counterproductive as it reinforces the negative stereotypes about apostates and feeds the JWs' persecution complex. I understand where they're coming from. Such criticisms are valid but I think they're merely the disadvantages of this type of activism. What about the advantages?

  Memorial is a key meeting to target with activism because it's the meeting with the highest percentage of non-JWs present! So we can talk about the negative impact it has on JWs. What about the positive impact on non-JWs?

  A large number of non-JWs would find the memorial of JWs to be strange. But for a non-JW sitting in a crowd of compliant JWs its easier for him to dismiss his own reservations about the matter. It's easier for him to tell himself that the problem is with him - that he just doesn't understand the truth of the matter as the JWs do. Having vocal activists present and brave enough to challenge the authenticity of the observance serves as a form of confirmation to all the non-JWs present who are thinking to themselves that this doesn't seem right.

  Without the activists present some non-JWs be thinking: "It just doesn't seem right - but maybe it's just me. I mean, these JWs do seem to understand their bible pretty well..." But with vocal activists present, more non-JWs be thinking: "He's right, Jesus did say to eat my flesh and drink my blood. I know this doesn't look right. And clearly I'm not the only one who sees that." Some non-JWs also be thinking: "What drama! You don't see that at a weekly sunday mass, do you? What would motivate someone to do that? He seems knowledgeable of their beliefs. He must be a former member. This religion must have done a number on this guy for him to feel motivated to do something like that. I think I'm going to look up former JWs when I go home. The fact that ex-members are like that points to the fact that there must be hidden darker side to this religion."

  See folks! Activism isn't all or only about reaching JWs. I dare say activism should be primarily about reaching non-JWs! Stunts like this reach non-JWs! It is far better to reach the non-JW public than attempt to reach JWs. It's like fighting Ebola. It's far better to work on vaccinating vulnerable populations than trying to find a cure when people already get it.

  Reaching the public = vaccination against the JW mind virus = greatly stagnated JW growth = more JWs being exposed to TTATT at the door from non-apostates = more JWs doing serious research to prove the TTATT heard at the door wrong = more JWs waking up!
  
• 

  sparrowdown

  Why not put clearly in their "invitations" that if you decide to come you are not allowed to partake!!
• 

  Pete Zahut

  See folks! Activism isn't all or only about reaching JWs. I dare say activism should be primarily about reaching non-JWs! Stunts like this reach non-JWs! It is far better to reach the non-JW public than attempt to reach JWs.

  I guess I don't get the popularity of "activism" for the sake of activism, these days. It's the fashionable thing to do to rally around something publicly or blast others with your opinion on every topic. It seems like some people are looking for a bandwagon to jump on or a cause to engaged in it to make themselves feel as if they are part of something important. I've seen groups invade/disrupt Council meetings and Press Conferences and they always come off badly in my opinion (even when I agree with them).

  When I see some of these X-JW's doing their thing, I get the sense that they may be showing off to the rest of us, showing us how it's done. Why else would they need to video the whole thing other than to show their handy work to others and get a slap on the back from those who enjoy seeing the ensuing drama without having to risk anything themselves. It seems to me that when these same folks were JW's they might have the ones we remember who were over the top about "the truth" as well. The ones who'd get a head of steam worked up at the meeting or at the assembly and go out an blind side the public with their gusto and be perplexed as to why no one would listen to them.

  As far as reaching non JW's who may have been in attendance, it's more than likely that this demonstration served as an opportunity for the seemingly nice kindly balance JW's in suits and ties, to give their startled guests the JW version of what took place and to give them the low down on these scary imbalanced apostates whom the Bible foretold would be in abundance, in the "last days".
  
• 

  ttdtt

  I HATE the WT - but I don't think those things are cool - and I know they are Counter Productive.

  Does not make anyone question the GB or their beliefs. Just makes them think they are getting the persecution that "bible" says they would get.
• 

  Skedaddle

  Yes but the kind of persecution they were expecting was for just being Jehovah's Witnesses, no? I'm not sure they were expecting persecution to mean someone telling them they are refusing the body of Christ by not partaking of the bread and wine or court case after court case and Governmental inquiries due to peadophilia cover-ups or telling them their contributions are being spent on Payouts to abuse victims and property. I certainly wasn't under that impression back in the day. Persecution as far as I understood it was going to be imprisonment for remaining a witness, being attacked in the street, having my house damaged, my life threatened etc. Maybe I'm wrong...
• 

  GreenhornChristian

  That's the first time I've ever heard that the generation began in 1992. I've only been out 4 years. Is this new or did I miss something?
• 

  steve2

  If JWs are primed to expect persecution, activists who break the peace of Kingdom Hall meetings feed that expectation.

  Besides, the guy who raises his glass and speaks up during the memorial was inarticulate confirming again JWs notions that opposers have nothing worthwhile to say.

  You'd think if he's going to disrupt the JWs lawful assembly, he'd choose his words carefully and memorably.

  I think the JWs would have been shaken by his antics but upon their reflecting upon it, very likely bolstered in their conviction about opposers.