Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Baker Who Refused to Bake Cake for Gay Couple

by Simon 286 Replies latest social current

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  TD

  A Gay Web Designer is not under obligation to design a custom site for the Westboro Baptist Church, are they?

  Probably not, but It really depends on two things.

  1. If the business is open to the public. (i.e. It comes under the legal definition of a Public Accommodation.)

  I doubt if Web Design, by its very nature would qualify. This is more applicable to restaurants, hotels and other businesses where the doors are literally open to the public.
  

  2. Whether his/her work qualifies as a personal and/or artistic expression.

  The courts have ruled in multiple cases now that cakes and floral arrangements in and of themselves (sans any sort of a message, emblem, picture or slogan) do not fall into this category.
  
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  Hisclarkness

  Hi Jehalepeno,

  I would say it depends. Are the Islamic web designers only offering Islamic web services? If so, then no, they wouldn’t have to make a Christian site. That’s just like asking an Islamic meat shop to sell pork. If they don’t offer pork to begin with then you can’t compel them to sell pork products.

  If they are simply web designers that are Islamic, and if they are offering a general service to the public, then that could get a bit fishy.

  The gay web designer could refuse serving Westboro Baptist Church based on their hateful rhetoric. He is not discrimating against the baptist church at large; he is refusing this congregation specifically based on their hateful message.

  Even if it wasn’t the Church but simply a member who wanted something innocent like a birthday design, the designer might choose to do business with the individual but if he chose not to serve that person based on their association with westboro, he would still legally be in the right. That may or may not be the right thing to do but legally it’s fine.
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  Jehalapeno

  Hateful messages aren’t against the law in the US.

  Only if they specifically incite violence.
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  TD

  Hateful messages aren’t against the law in the US.

  No, but as Simon and others have pointed out on this thread, the proprietor of a business cannot usually be compelled to convey a hateful / objectionable message as that would constitute a violation of his/her freedom of speech and/or religion.

  The issue here was the cake in and of itself.
  
• 

  Simon

  I would say it depends. Are the Islamic web designers only offering Islamic web services? If so, then no, they wouldn’t have to make a Christian site.

  Then why can't a baker offer Christian cake services?

  People should be able to narrow their marker however they want. If someone wants to have a gay-only cake making service, I don't see anything wrong with them saying that they don't want to bake cakes for heterosexual weddings or outwardly anti-gay groups.

  It's really the double-standard and inconsistent treatment that seems wrong - one group can be specifically targeted for harassment via the law.

  Once you stop looking at the specifics of the case and look more at the principle and how it can be applied to all, you often find things become clearer as to what should and shouldn't be fair and workable.
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  Hisclarkness

  Hi simon,

  i think the baker could have a “Christian” baker shop. But I don’t think that was the case here. It was simply a bakery that does wedding cakes.

  I think I’m being consistent here. Just as an Islamic meat shop couldn’t be compelled to serve pork a “Christian” shop couldn’t be compelled to do something against their beliefs.

  The only two things I could say is:

  1. The baker’s shop wasn’t a “Christian” bakery. It was just a Christian running a bakery. There’s a difference.

  2. People who oppose “gay” marriage on religious grounds are going to have a difficult time in the future if they offer wedding specific services but won’t offer them to gay couples. Again, the government doesn’t recognize “gay” marriage or “straight” marriage; it recognizes marriage. So if someone decides to differentiate between gay and straight marriage then that’s discrimination based on sexual orientation.
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  Hisclarkness

  There is still separation of church and state in this country. A “Christian” business could be considered an outlet of the church. Therefore, a “Christian” bakery would not be obliged to bake a same sex wedding cake anymore than the church would be forced to recognize gay marriage. But I imagine you wouldn’t just be able to set up shop and call it a “Christian” store without some actual affiliation with a church.

  If you are a baker who owns a bakery that makes wedding cakes and you just happen to be Christian as is in this case then you are obliged to not discriminate.
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  TD

  Church owned businesses can discriminate if and only if the primary purpose of the business is religious.
  
• 

  Simon

  Again, the government doesn’t recognize “gay” marriage or “straight” marriage; it recognizes marriage. So if someone decides to differentiate between gay and straight marriage then that’s discrimination based on sexual orientation.

  At the time, the government didn't recognize gay marriage because it wasn't legal. I don't think you should be compelled by law to support* something that isn't recognized by law as being legal, especially if it goes against your personal beliefs.

  *support being to use your speech in the form of artistic expression in this case
  
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  _Morpheus

  And so the issue rears its head again. With the same baker and, he believes, the same “client”

  http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/15/jack-phillips-sues-colorado/