Kingdom Hall consolidation video - managing decline and collapse

by slimboyfat 45 Replies latest members campaign

  • new boy
    new boy

    My parents started attending the Glendora Congregation in 1961. My mother had a strange feeling about the congregation. There was something going on there that just didn’t feel right. There was a huge exodus going on of people leaving the Kingdom hall too. So my parents (probably mostly my mom) decided to go to the Azusa Kingdom Hall instead. The funny thing is, we lived about a hundred yards from the Azusa congregation’s territory line.

    She requested her publisher record cards to turn in to her new kingdom hall. In those days you would have to go to the Bible Study overseer to get your publish record cards. These cards reported all your field service active and any other information a new congregation might need to know about you. They like to keep close tabs on everyone.

    They don’t give this cards to the publishers themselves any more. Now, they mail them to your new congregation. The reason is people would get their cards and throw them away and stop being Jehovah’s witnesses. The society wants to know if you quit now a days. Why is that? The only reason I can think of is so they can punish you. They want to be able tell everyone that “brother or sister so in so is no longer a Jehovah’s witnesses.” This way they can make sure everyone knows when you leave. No fading allowed, let the shunning begin!

    Something strange happened. Instead of getting their cards the “brothers” in charge said they wanted to meet with my parents. Back in the nineteen sixties there were three brothers in charge of the congregation. There was the overseer, the assistant overseer and the theocratic ministry overseer or the bible study overseer.

    At the meeting the three brothers requested my parents to stay and not leave the Glendora congregation. In essence they needed to stop the exodus out of the Kingdom hall. Since my family was well known in the hall they choose us to make an example of. There really was no rule about going to a congregation outside your territory, so my parents held their ground.

    My parents ended up writing a letter to the Brooklyn Bethel, the headquarters of the organization to complain about these overseers. My parents didn’t know it at the time but the letter that they wrote was not confidential. The society forwards all letters to your overseers or elders. So these overseers got really mad. There were more meetings and more yelling. A one point they called my father “a monkey on a string.” I’m not sure what that means. Whatever it meant, my dad didn’t like it and let them have it. I heard there was a lot of yelling and name calling that went on in those meetings.

    All my parents wanted to do was go to a different kingdom all. It ended up with my mother being “publicly reproved” and my father was “dis-fellowshipped for slander and rebelliousness against the organization.” They said they would have dis-fellowshipped my mother too but she had a bad heart and the shock might kill her. They were right, it would have killed her.

    Back in those days when you got dis-fellowshipped or publicly reproved. The presiding overseer would announce your sin to the whole congregation. That’s right. “Brother Jones has been dis-fellowshipped for immorality!” “Sister Smith has is publicly reproved for gossiping.” The society stopped doing that years ago. Why? Because they thought it was a cruel and unloving thing to do? No that’s not the case. I’m sure they would still love to do it that way. They stopped announcing the nature of the sin because they were being sued for defamation of character and losing these court cases.

    I’m guessing my father could have done some activity that might have deserved this kind of punishment. So maybe on some level he did get justice. On the other hand, my mother was the perfect JW follower and what they did to her stabbed her to the heart.

    This totally destroyed our family. My father blamed my mother and her religion for his public humiliation. My mother was in total shock and disbelief that there could be such an injustice in in Jehovah’s loving organization.

    My father ran a crew of about thirty men on a construction site. One day he overheard one of his men tell another. “You know Marty got kicked out of his church. What kind of terrible thing do you do to get out of a church, have sex with farm animals?” My father had a lot of pride, so this cut him to the core.

    He stop going to most of the meetings. My mother was a die hard. She was never going to give up. She was more diligent than ever. All of us were of course shunned. So we got the looks at the kingdom hall and the whispering behind our backs. She never flinched.

    We ended up going to the Azusa congregation anyway. Why not, we had paid the price for wanting to go there already. Six months of faithful meeting attendance in her new congregation and her “public reproof” was lifted. My mother was “in good standing” again. True she was forgiven but do you really think people in a small congregation really forget stuff like that?

    My parents went to the circuit overseer to get justice. He was on his last trip through and didn’t want to get involved. The next circuit overseer wasn’t much better. Since these three “brothers” are appointed by the society and thus it is thought they were appointed god himself. They were untouchable.

    In 1964 my parents flew back New York City to the world headquarters of the Jehovah’s Witnesses which is called Bethel. They wanted to plead their case to the big boys. They talked to Harley Miller in the service department. After hearing their story he set up a special committee to retry their case. Finally after for four years the matter was reopened. My parents were not just reinstated they were exonerated. I didn’t matter anymore for my father. He would never be an active Jehovah’s Witness ever again. He would lead my mother on by going to the meetings now and then and of course the memorial every year. He was done. He would never let them hurt him that way again. He told me years later. “If that is what they call love I’ll go somewhere else.” I thought my father was stupid and foolish back then and I didn’t believe him. I saw at Bethel how right he was.

    What happened to the three “brothers” the three overseers who did this to my parents? Nothing happened to them. Oh guess what? They all left the religion years later also.

    According the society all elders and servants are appointed directly by god’s Holy Spirit. So I guess it was god who made the real mistake here not these guys. Of course whenever things like this happen in the organization, the Witnesses will be the first to tell you “we are all imperfect.” Yet, why are you telling your people that your leaders are appointed by god?

    Just another catch 22 in action.

    Bottom line even though my parents and I did nothing wrong we were all still shunned by the Witnesses. So shunning is not just reserved for wrong doers. Anyone in good standing or not, can experience this unique Jehovah’s Witnesses punishment.

    In high school I was shunned by my witness friends because of my parents and dislike by fellow class mates too. A rock and a hard place.

  • LV101
    LV101

    What a horrifying religion based on lies and more lies.

  • Gorbatchov
    Gorbatchov

    By a congregation split up, my grandfather elder could stay in our congregation due to a creative PO.

    The PO draw a coridor border from territory congregation A to territory congregation B. And the CO kept his eyes closed.

    My grandfathers house was an island in the other territory.

    Great option, isn't it?

    Jo Publisher and Fred Pumbler had to move to the other congregation.

    It was all about royality then. Family G. made borders chance.

    😂😂😂

    G.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    Many of those merged congregations were not viable. If you have a building that holds 150 and average 70 at your Sunday meeting and there's another KH 15 minutes away in the same sized building with the same numbers, why would you NOT merge those 2? Especially if you aren't projecting any real growth? Seems like easy math.

    Doubting Bro - Yes but this is exactly the problem. Congregations are made up of human beings, with shared histories and identities. They are not plastic chips in an abstract accounting game. On paper, two nearby congregations, with underused KHs, can be merged, and “efficiencies” can be realised. In practice, you’ll end up swapping two declining congregations for one declining congregation, fewer members, greater dissatisfaction, and poorer prospects for growth or contributions. “Efficiencies” that look good on paper will never be realised in practice, because congregations comprise human beings with their own hopes, desires, agendas.

    Other religious organisations realise this and congregations are heavily involved and invested in their own future and local growth. WT leadership has the ideology that individual JWs must obey the organisation regardless of their personal or local circumstances. They have until now had the luxury of growth in which this ideology can thrive. They will discover that this approach to human beings as numbered plastic chips and financial assets will not fare well in the context of decline. They look set to learn this lesson the hard way.

    The branches that have closed in Europe are some of the oldest branches that WT owned. Switzerland branch was opened over a hundred years ago. Other branches have been significantly downsized, pushing the reductions far beyond simply rolling back the excesses of the 1980s.

    When I mentioned the financial crisis I meant the apparent crisis in the WT organisation that prompted them to beg for money in 2015 and announce dramatic cutbacks. Not the global financial crisis of 2008.

    The move to Warwick saved money or cost money? You seem to have it both ways. As I understand it, in 2015 they reached a real crunch point, and the decision was made to “scale back, delay, or cancel” worldwide projects in order to be able to proceed with Warwick. There was even apparently consideration given to abandoning the Britain branch mid project. So far they have instead opted to downscale Chelmsford significantly rather than abandon it altogether. So how come they proceeded with Warwick? A mixture of things: it was already advanced when crisis hit, they miscalculated, cancelled other projects, and are in increasing financial difficulty as a result.

  • freddo
    freddo

    SBF wrote - "Gary Breaux mentioned that as a result of mergers he and his wife had been reassigned to a new congregation after decades at their old KH. The message being: if it’s good enough for me, it’s good enough for you. Don’t complain."

    ... ... ... ...

    I sat through that video and my recollection was that Bro. Breaux (Bro. "Bro" the Pillowanking Denier?) actually didn't say his move was as a result of the mergers - he just said he got reassigned - which could easily have been as part of his way up the greasy pole of WT land years ago and nothing to do with the present mergers.

    Just a small point where they (WT leaders) try to lead you one way to support and spin their argument when it was just a coincidence being used to their benefit.

  • Fay Dehr
    Fay Dehr

    In my assigned circuit the "per publisher" donation for every circuit assembly day - a stealth tax - rose from £4 to £8 between 2012 and 2015. I just found out it's now risen to £11. Ditto for regional conventions. They are clearly sucking money through assemblies and conventions already.

    My prediction: increased pressure for all to enter their card payment details online. Soon, an notification to such donors will be "the GB has increased the value of your automatic donation, in line with our global 'costs' so that an equalising may take place. Should this be a hardship on anyone, you may speak with your local elders." This is a stealth tithe, and I predict it's inevitable imminence...

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    yes this is happening in London too. The sheep have different ways of dealing with this some positive some negative. I don't like the negative comments as they revolve around that the congregation they are moving from seems to be losing Jehovah's spirit anyway. How will people keep up with their spirituality and self esteem with all this movement going on? particularly with bethelites leaving the metropolis soon? some families are moving to Essex. others can say rents are very high in London and move there too - I've heard couples saying this - more freedom in london for inactive ones!!!!

  • cofty
    cofty
    Congregations are made up of human beings, with shared histories and identities. - SBF

    I agree strongly with this.

    They forget they dealing with people who have local loyalties.

    Studies have shown that in the heat of battle soldiers fight for comrades and units not 'king and country'. They will eventually break the R&F.

  • The Fall Guy
    The Fall Guy

    SBF - I would not disagree with a single thing you've postulated, and would strongly agree with bullet point #5.

    The org is delusional if they think that the financial savings/benefits will solve their apparent/hidden dilemmas. Thankfully, (IMO) their strategy is self-destructive, because either consciously or unconsciously, the worldwide flock has been alerted to the fact that the "shepherds" don't love the sheep, they love their fleece!

    I would speculate that the majority of J.W.'s (in the developed world) are deeply troubled by the constant pressure to donate, donate, donate. Only a very small hard core of JW's will blindly accept this bombardment of begging.

    Pending proof to the contrary, I remain convinced that the WTBTS's actions over the last decade or so indicates that the worldwide org has suffered a near-fatal trauma - and is now fighting for its (financial) life.

    The congregations and their KH's are simply a means to an end. They are the cash-cows now being slaughterd - and the hierarchy has clearly been forced into this corner by their pathetic financial "management."

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Very true The Fall Guy. I think there are good indications that, as well as long term loss of income, WT suffered some kind of acute financial crisis above and beyond that, sometime around 2015. It remains to be seen if they can dig themselves out of the situation. JWs don’t easily forget the boast of the first Watchtower, which has often been quoted in the literature:

    Zion's Watch Tower' has, we believe, JEHOVAH for its backer, and while this is the case it will never beg nor petition men for support. When He who says: 'All the gold and silver of the mountains are mine,' fails to provide necessary funds, we will understand it to be time to suspend the publication.

    Searching for this quote brought up this interesting page about donations falling short of literature.

    http://governingbodyletters.blogspot.co.uk/2008/11/contributions-to-watchtower.html

    This has been going on for a long time. WT is belatedly trying to solve a problem that has been nearly three decades in the making. The solutions they’ve come up with are woeful and likely to make the situation worse. Plus, as you say, it has revealed some of the uglier motives of the leadership to ordinary JWs.

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