Thoughts on African Americans and Slavery

by Simon 44 Replies latest social current

tor1500

Hi All,
Let cut through the chase here...Slavery is and will always be about free labor and money...It has nothing to do with mankind at all....as always..
This country was built by robber barons.... but it's the only country I know where you can talk about the gov't and not get arrested....why so folks come from other countries then want to have a parade in America to celebrate the country they just left...I could go on....Don't get me wrong, it's a great place but I'm a citizen and know exactly how America rolls....
Native Americans, now let's just break that down...the word native implies that person is from that place...Native Americans...isn't that redundant....they were the original Americans, so what's the need to add native in front of their name...they should be called American American, right?...We always have to identify those who are not of the Caucasian persuasion...African American, what about folks who are from the West Indies...they are not African Americans, Latin American's. and so on...
Read the history of America....again, Slavery is all about the almighty dollar.....most people who have never had slaves in their family or the background of slavery, how would they know...most immigrants stopped off at Ellis Island...there are records of folks family arriving...regarding slaves....they came by boat but never Ellis Island...Unless you are a black person, you'll never get it...unless you get stopped just because you have a certain type of car, you won't understand...when the cops pull you over just because, you'll never understand. Just like Black folks will never know what it's like to be white...oh yeah, they'll get a taste of it, but the privilege of it no...
Trump is now in office....& The White House is finally White Again,
Tor
Simon

although there are BLM protesters who want to try and make some - really?!
When it comes to BLM, yeah, we don't have that. Not like the US. But some people are trying to start a fire for whatever reason...
Yes, they took over a gay pride parade and made a big stink, selfish morons, claiming they were at risk because there was a police float (shame on those police, being inclusive).
in reality, I think it'd be much better if the privileges they get (such as post-secondary education funding) went to people who actually need them because of their financial situation, not because of their race.
This is why they make a stink - so called "positive discrimination". The idea that they should get more than everyone else whether that is actual handouts or lowering the scale for them (e.g. grades for university admittance) which effectively penalizes other people doing better.
It's part of the lefts "jumping the shark" where, once equal rights have been obtained, is no longer enough and instead people demand equality of outcome. Very, very different and impossible to achieve without unfairness.
I think it's damaging ... it sometimes makes sense for 1, 2 generations in some specific targeted ways (but groups have started with nothing and thrived) but now many 1st nation people are impoverished and the chiefs are pocketing millions of dollars in payments and there is ZERO transparency and accountability. Literally, they passed laws to stop having to publish the accounts to their own people. Disgraceful.
Is the money helping the people it's meant to help, or is it enriching an elite-class within the group in return for political support?
Excuse me...your post offended me, if you care whether or not you offend people or not. I wanted you to know I AM offended by your interpretation of my experience. comparing indentured servitude to chattel slavery and not really caring about the difference...
1. I don't care if you take offence, facts have no feelings.
2. I didn't describe your experience, because I doubt very much that you personally experienced those things.
Slavery and suffering is not unique to black people and African Americans are not the the only disadvantaged group and ultimately the least-disadvantaged, whether you like it or not, of all slaves taken from Africa. It doesn't make slavery wonderful or acceptable ... but let's stop with the oppression olympics.
It's 2017, time to focus on the NOW and not the past because those who forget about the past may be destined to repeat it, but whose who wallow in the past will never get beyond it.
Simon

This country was built by robber barons.... but it's the only country I know where you can talk about the gov't and not get arrested....why so folks come from other countries then want to have a parade in America to celebrate the country they just left...I could go on....Don't get me wrong, it's a great place but I'm a citizen and know exactly how America rolls....
There are a ton of countries who's citizens enjoy more freedom than Americans. But keep drinking the cool-aide.
It always has been owned and run by tyrants though, the tea-party rebellion against taxation is a myth that each generation is indoctrinated with.
Native Americans, now let's just break that down...the word native implies that person is from that place...Native Americans...isn't that redundant....they were the original Americans, so what's the need to add native in front of their name...they should be called American American, right?...We always have to identify those who are not of the Caucasian persuasion...African American, what about folks who are from the West Indies...they are not African Americans, Latin American's. and so on...
So what would everyone else be called? It's a simple, agreed-upon term that clearly distinguishes the people without being insulting like "red indians" is.
Read the history of America....again, Slavery is all about the almighty dollar.....most people who have never had slaves in their family or the background of slavery, how would they know...most immigrants stopped off at Ellis Island...there are records of folks family arriving...regarding slaves....they came by boat but never Ellis Island...Unless you are a black person, you'll never get it...unless you get stopped just because you have a certain type of car, you won't understand...when the cops pull you over just because, you'll never understand. Just like Black folks will never know what it's like to be white...oh yeah, they'll get a taste of it, but the privilege of it no...
First, most white people never owned slaves, despite BLM propaganda that suggests we all owned plantations, even the people who just got here. And yes, white folks will never know what it's like to be black (but we can watch movies and empathize) but also black folks will never know what it's like to be white but many times seem happy to ascribe feelings and motives to them, increasingly (by some) assumed to be racist ones culminating in the notion that people are "guilty just for being white".
The stopped-for-being-black thing has been debunked many times or is at least unproven, same as hands-up, don't-shoot and many other claims. All these false narratives and false but endless accusations of racism are partly why we now have President Trumpenstein. They also don't help a sizeable segment of the population that believes every experience they have is because of their skin color instead of the decisions they make in life, to get ahead and make better decisions.
Trump is now in office....& The White House is finally White Again
IMO that is a disgustingly ignorant and insulting thing to say.
BTW: it's white because we burnt it down and it had to be painted, so behave or else we'll come down there and do it again!
tor1500

Hi,
So what's people to be called....humans... & of course there are places like America, but there is no place like America. It's a place where you can make $$$ and then go back where you came from...I ride the train and taxi's daily, more folks from every where than you can count. I don't think you agreed with my opinions....and that's just what they are....
We can agree to disagree and not be disagreeable....
Tor
slimboyfat

Simon you don't think black people are more likely to be stopped and searched or more likely to be shot? One fact that's hard to dispute is more black people are in prison. How do you account for that?
Ruby456

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, SImon - I can appreciate that these are your personal musings, but i can't help feeling that it is a lonely road u are travelling. What made this site great was the wonderful diversity of opinion. Perhaps you want to make this a smaller platform that would be less unwieldly?
LoveUniHateExams

Excuse me...your post offended me - tough shit, snowflake. I've got something else that may offend you - your fellow black Africans sold your black African ancestors into slavery. Slavery had been going on in Africa before whitey set foot on the continent. You're lucky you live in America. If you lived in an African country, you would no doubt be poorer - that's if you weren't slaughtered in tribal conflict.
So white folks get to tell all the worlds history while just recently coming out of the dark ages...so you emerge on the scene out of darkness...while the rest of the world is flourishing and suddenly have all the answers and know everyone's story? - strange way of looking at things. The rest of the world isn't flourishing, generally speaking. And the reason why they're not generally flourishing is mostly down to aspects of their own cultures. Western countries, cultures and technology represent the high point of humankind.
Black being hung in public on a tree for all to cheer even young children cheering the strangulation of a black man or the mutilation of a black man or burning of a black man - are all very bad things. You know that in the 60s, lots of white people marched with black people, right?
You know that that racist scum who shot 9 black people, Dylan Roof, will be put to death for his crimes?
Simon

you don't think black people are more likely to be stopped and searched or more likely to be shot? One fact that's hard to dispute is more black people are in prison. How do you account for that?
Yes and no, there is some evidence for and some against, but nowhere near the clear and damning statistics that some like to claim. Overall stats may indicate something is wrong with a system but can't be the proof of that in itself - we need to look at what factors cause those outcomes.
It's well known that absence of father figures and dropping out of school greatly elevate the likelihood that someone will live in poverty and be more likely to commit crimes and ultimately end up in prison. Those apply across races.
It just so happens that those are things that adversely affect black communities more than some others. It would actually be amazing if, 14-19 years after the rates of those go up in a community, that the crime figures didn't also go up.
It would be tempting to take the end result and put it down to racism if there appeared to be a correlation with race, but there's little indication that race itself is the real cause of higher rates of incarceration.
Too often the stats only tell half the story, like proportion of black / white stopped and not the rates of driving without license / insurance, speeding etc... which again, would be weird if they did not somehow feed into the 'being stopped' rates.
Of course there are going to be individual cases that people can point to - a back rapist given a harsher sentence than a rich white offender. But they conveniently miss out the poor white offenders who don't get let off because they don't fit the narrative. Very often it's not the color of the person that dictates the sentencing, it's their wealth and position.
You see police brutality and a system rigged against the poorest in society and of course there will be within that some people who take advantage to push their own racial agendas (on both sides - black cops shoot more white people than vice versa). But is the entire system specifically targeting people by race, or is that just the overlap of two 'sets' of demographics - wealth and race?
An interesting discussion:
https://youtu.be/IFqVNPwsLNo?t=1393
(skip to 23:00 for the relevant part)
Simon

I can appreciate that these are your personal musings, but i can't help feeling that it is a lonely road u are travelling. What made this site great was the wonderful diversity of opinion. Perhaps you want to make this a smaller platform that would be less unwieldly?
I would much rather speak my opinions and (hopefully) speak the truth than be popular. If you think my opinions are wrong whether based on faulty reasoning or stats or prejudice or whatever, then show me where my error is.
But it has to be more than "many people think otherwise". That is a weak argument that is simply giving in to dogma and populism.
It's also more important to allow people to voice an opinion and for everyone to be able to share their opinions so that we can come to some understanding of the different viewpoints on an issue and the facts and evidence that might be behind them. We should not dismiss things simply because we believe they are heresy OR dogma.
"It is the customary fate of new truths to begin as heresies and to end as superstitions." (T. H. Huxley)
silentbuddha

I think many do not want to face the reality of the situation. Last week in a Starbucks two people in their 50's began talking about the holocaust, and the lasting impact that it has on the jewish community. I sat quietly ad listened from the table behind them. They kept speaking about this huge fear of another holocaust because everyone
They kept speaking about this huge fear of another holocaust and how something that happened in the 1940's still has such a huge impact on THEIR daily lives. They believe that the racist views that many had in the early 20th century still exist to this day and that AMERICA and EUROPE need to devote more monetary sources to the security of their nation.
I must admit I was very upset. Here we are 70+ years later and you are still acting as if you are disadvantaged? World governments came together and created / returned you to your country and continue to provide billions of dollars in aid and defense. The time has come to move on and realize that things that took place over half a century ago have no bearing on where you are at today - which I might add is a very nice situation.

Thoughts on African Americans and Slavery

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