A chance for the unrighteous? (page 2)

Half banana

Alain, welcome to the site.

As a matter of curiosity, you are an ex believer but all of your questions are in connection with the "scriptural" evidence for doctrine. Would you like to say why this exercises you so when you have already personally passed the stage for being concerned. I wonder if you are in discussion with family of friends who are JWs and trying to show them where they are wrong?

As an important side note, since the ambiguities of events, accounts and teachings in the Bible are so profound and the consequences of which are divisive sectarian beliefs, doesn't this tell the researcher that doctrinaire interpretations of the Bible are all hopelessly flawed?

JoenB75

Vanderhoven7, I think in general we believe in universal eonian judgment starting with the house of God. Judgment and salvation will be unrelated for the unbelievers ☺️

Vanderhoven7

I think in general we believe in universal eonian judgment starting with the house of God

JoenB75, I agree that believers are judged first.

Question: What do you believe that judgment is about or for?

AlainAlam

Half banana, as to why I'm interested in such discussions, two reasons:

The first is simply curiosity. I like to read and discuss thoughts. I will often discuss the thoughts of other religions I don't believe in, although on this group in particular I'd like to discuss JW doctrine in particular.

The second is that for years I have been indoctrinated. Some JW teachings I'm sure are scriptural. Other JW teachings I'm sure are unscriptural. But recently I've been noticing that many beliefs that I've had for years and that I thought were scriptural, actually weren't. As a fresh apostate I'd like to make sense of the things I've learned :smile: For example, I've learned something from cofty's post above. Although I don't believe in Jehovah, Jesus, or the Bible, I need this. I hope this makes sense :)

eyeuse2badub

A chance for the unrighteous?

I sure hope so! Means I have a chance!

just saying!

AlainAlam

BlueBrother well the capital sin in the Bible is to reject God. Jesus praised Jehovah for hiding the truth from the arrogant. If those fighting Covid 19 haven't accepted the truth, well, Jehovah hasn't led them to it. In a JW's mind their selflessness just attests to the beauty of Jehovah's qualities, that are reflected even in those who refuse to acknowledge his sovereignty. Besides they will add that "the door is not closed yet" and that they might even die and be resurrected as unrighteous.

I don't believe in any of it now :) I find it an interesting, elaborate construction. Back then it was enough for me to focus on all the good, nice, rational things in the "truth" and keep going. But the more I studied the more I discovered flaws, until it became unbearable and I left.

Half banana

Thank you for replying Alain, it is interesting to find people's motives! For that matter I am fascinated by the motive for people wanting to see scripture as the ultimate authority.

Being a JW led us to sacralise the Bible and consider all of it a harmonious and perfectly integrated text, which as you are discussing, is very far from the truth of the matter.

JoenB75

Vanderhoven7, I believe the Bible says we are judged for our actions/works and saved out of grace and the blood of Jesus. Individual Judgment is a strange work of God that completes the human experience.

Vanderhoven7

Yes, reminds me of 1 Corinthians 11

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Vanderhoven7

This begs the question though...

Who are the anointed going to rule over with a rod of iron during the 1000 year reign. Rev.12:5, 19:15

A chance for the unrighteous?

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