Christ's sacrifice

by dogisgod 19 Replies latest jw experiences

  • dogisgod
    dogisgod

    So, I am having lunch with a group of women with varying backgrounds. I asked the circle how many believed in the story of Adam and Eve and the snake. No one believed it literally. An allegory. Stolen story from older religions. I remarked that I realized I no longer believed in it and therefor no longer believed in the Ransom Sacrifice of Christ. Not one of them had ever heard the term Ransom in connection with Christ. I was pretty shocked. So Ransom is a JW thing?

  • cofty
    cofty

    Christians do not understand Jesus' death in the same way as JWs.

    Put simply, JWs believe that Jesus died for Adam's sin; xtians believe he died for their own sins.

    The Gospel Contrasted With the Watchtower Doctrine of the Ransom...

  • John Free
    John Free

    I think the ransom sacrifice doctrine is central to most Christian denominations- though people in general are quite unversed in scripture. I always found the idea of God needing a ransom arrangement very hard to believe indeed. The idea of a ransom appeasing God originates in the primitive minds of humans- the practice still exists today in very remote, very uneducated regions that haven’t benefited from human progress. So what’s more likely? That the highest intellectual mind really needed this bizarre arrangement so that he could forgive born sinners? Or that the idea was adopted and evolved from human concepts of the past?

    The garden of Eden and the talking snake is defo true though.

  • cofty
    cofty
    I think the ransom sacrifice doctrine is central to most Christian denominations

    Not in anything like the same way as JW doctrine. In fact if you say 'Jesus' ransom' to most xtians they will wonder what you are talking about.

    If you ask any xtian 'why did Jesus have to die?' the name of Adam will not be part of the answer.

    It is this doctrine that most clearly separates xtians from JWs.

  • John Free
    John Free

    I agree with you Cofty. I read your article and it’s funny because I always did notice the use of terms such as ‘imperfection’ and ‘Adam lost perfection’ were frequently printed in publications but aren’t used in the bible- which uses the word ‘sin’.

    I’m sure I have heard Christians using Romans 5:12 though when explaining the ransom ...

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Right on

  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown

    The simple concept of sacrificing one to save many that most christians have is not that difficult to grasp if you look at it like a religio/philosphical 'trollycar dilemma" kind of thing but this particluar understanding of a 'ransom" JWs have I always found to be even more convoluted, confusing and problematic.

    It opens up a whole heap of other logical questions like who pays the "ransom" to who etc. If the ransom has been paid once and for all time doesn't that mean everyone is atomatically saved? If not why is there other "payments" on top of the "ransom" in the form of obedience to a modern corp/org? If the ransom was paid in full why is there other payments on top of the "ransom" like preaching and meeting attendance etc? I could go on as I had years of boring meetings to sit through and mull over this crap.

    But, surfice to say it sounds more like a perpetual hire purchase scheme to me aka extortion and a perfect excuse for control.

  • Lost in the fog
    Lost in the fog

    Never understood why God cursed the literal snake to crawl on its belly in the dust if He really knew that (refer to the Book of Revelation) it wasn't the snake but the apostate angel - the Devil.

    Which makes me think that Genesis was concocted by Moses who didn't know the truth about the start of things and pinched bits from earlier Egyptian creation myths and the other stories of his day. 🤔🙄

  • zeb
    zeb

    with all their additions and then subtractions, new light old light, threats and denials, imposed guilt trips and general demands the wt has just about ruined forever the value of the scriptures for so many people.

    There is 'points', 'we concludes'' and 'we must accept/s' in legion...

    Me? I hold A & E were real as take any breeding line back you must come to original pair, but, I am more serious about performing random acts of kindness, paying my bills and getting a nights sleep. Oh and petrol here is $1-46 a litre. ( X 4.55 for gallon price)

    Peace.

  • cofty
    cofty
    I hold A & E were real as take any breeding line back you must come to original pair

    Nope.

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