They're turning up the heat (page 2)

Winston Smith :>D

Mustaing & willyloman,

Yes, I guess I'm getting a little ahead of myself here. #1 is the way to go.

And WL, thx for those reminders. I have Steve Hassans book [actually recommended it to shotgun, not GonG] and the book pretty much sys to not to confront the cult follower. Playing her the tape would only make her feel 'persecuted' and that I was the debil.

I will put off the meetings with them as much as possible unless my wife insists otherwise. and if asked, i can alsways use Theocratic Warfare and lie my ass off.

"Hell ya, the WTS is the F&DS. Jerusalem fell in 607 and the 'Big A' is soon!"

Nuff said. I'm going back underground

I am making progress with her, so i just gotta buy my time.

And Mustang, I am working on the materialism thing. Daddy's making more money now, and shopping sprees are a good thing for some girl's souls [mine at least, since we were typically always broke before.]

Thx for the slap across the face to wake me up. And to remember to breath. That helps

Winston.

cruzanheart

What worked for me (Big Tex's idea -- credit where it's due!) was to "move" to another congregation where I knew they would ignore me. I was starting to rile up an elder in the old hall, so leaving was fortuitous before he really got mad enough to bring other elders into it. So far (a year) it's been really peaceful.

You know, if they do DF you, it might actually make your wife go further out. She loves you and she sees you trying hard for her sake to help her get to meetings, so it will seem terribly terribly unfair to her that they would do that to you, when you have SUCH a good attitude.

Good luck!

Nina

xjw_b12

Winston. I doubt they are even going to attempt to answer your questions because of course they can't.

They are just trying to build up evidence against you before they ask you the infamous DF question. Try to avoid them in person at all costs. Back down if possible, because I'm sure they smell blood now.

I'm glad you and shotgun are corresponding with each other, as it seems you are in similar boats at the same times.

I like Nina's idea. Move, and don't leave a forwarding address.

Take Care

david

Winston Smith :>D

Hey David & Nina,

Moving would be nice, but my wife really likes the area, so she will not move easily.

But I believe this may all blow over soon because there are some happenings for the congregation in the future that may put my tough apostate Q's in the background. They may then have enough to worry about without having to sweat the 'small stuff' like using shock therapy on me in the back room until i scream:

"The WTS is my Daddy! Uncle, Uncle, UNCLE!!!"

PM me if you want more info, unless of course your a mole

Thx all,

Winston.

mizpah

Winston,

I think David is right. The only thing they will be interested in will be whether or not you still recognize the Watchtower Society as the channel that Jehovah is using today. If they attempt to answer your questions, it will be superficially. But my guess is they will "cut to the chase" with the inevitable question about your own views regarding the organization and its role today.

Be warned, though: The elders can disfellowship you "in absentia" even if you refuse to appear at their judicial meetings. They are probably buidling the evidence they need right now. It will not bother them if they become the accusers and judges in this matter. Don't expect a "fair hearing." And do not be naive to think they will be distracted by other matters after all the counsel they have received about weeding out the apostates from the organization.

FreeWilly

Winston,

It depends on your objective here. If you want to stay in good standing, but not be dishonest you need to stay away from any more specific doctrinal discussions. Evade, deflect and distract.

The key words you must use are "I do have doubts, but I'm working with them with lots of prayer"

The operative word is "Doubts". In the Elder manual it specifically urges restrain against someone who merely has "Doubts", vice someone who has "hardened their heart"

Do not engage! smile, change the subject emphathize with their point of view - but don't take any baited questions.

If pressed admit your doubts but offer hope.

Big Tex

Moving would be nice, but my wife really likes the area, so she will not move easily.

You need time and space. Move your cards to another congregation. You don't have to physically move. Yes your elders will write a scathing letter to your new congreation but they will not pursue you as religiously as these elders. Your elders have now made it personal. You have had the nerve to stand up to them. How dare you! So they're out to either get you to buckle or they'll DF you. If you move your cards, they will no longer have jurisidiction. The new elders will no doubt want to talk to you, but this time resist the urge to speak the truth. Give generic excuses why you can't meet with them and they'll eventually give up.

You need time. Call this bozo up and give a legitimate excuse for Sunday. (family outing, sick relative in the hospital, dog died, asteroid hitting the earth, etc.) Anything. Apologize profusely and tell him you will call him back next week to reschedule.

Then don't call. If/when he emails you, give generic put offs. (Let's do lunch sometime to talk, I'll get back with you, etc.) Don't respond directly yes or no to anything. Also begin to ignore every third or fourth email.

Basically you want to try to put him off until he gets tired of chasing you. Naturally this won't work forever, but it will give you some time. Right now, if you agree to this meeting, they are going to nail you with the old "do you believe this is Jehovah's organization" line and try to make you say something incriminating.

Remember elders don't need a reason to DF you. They can do what they want, when they want. Right now, play for time and put as much space between this guy and you as possible.

Good luck.

kilroy2

I had the same situation. me and the wife were dubbes for our whole lives before we married.

the key is to get your wife out and you cant do it by force, you have to keep asking questions and making her see little by little how wrong the dubbers are.

I got my wife to see how wrong they are, she stopped going on her own. she still believes in god although I do not. and I don’t care, we have our different opinions, but she is out of the control of the mind fu$kers,

I also had the same thing with the elders recently where they stopped and asked me if i believed that the org. was gods sole channel of communication on earth.

you need to refuse to answer the question. and ask questions of your own. they cant df you for asking questions, if you do it right, ie not. argumentatively

Personally I do not want to be df'ed for one reason, that is what they want, is to go around the hood and tell every person that they removed the bad seed. and I do not want to give them what they want.

uriah

The relplies here are all sound especially those that urge caution. It may simplify issues if you ask the question 'What do I want?'

This is a very difficult question so think about carefully.

Lets say that it is to leave the WT and take your wife with you and just fade away. No DF or DA'ing.

If that is what you want then the next question is 'how will I achieve it?'

Firstly, stop stirring the waters and let them settle, never mind 607 and all that, your goal is to fade with your wife, not disprove any doctrines. Keep focused on what you want.

Anything that distracts from your goal, cut it loose. Don't be baited. Use suggestions posted here by others that help.

Write your goal down and when you can reasonably expect to achieve it, then timeline it backwards, 1 year, 6 months, 3 months, 1 month, 3 weeks for example. Work out where you expect to be at each stage and the steps you will take to get there. Check progress regularly and alter your plans/steps etc., as needed.

The main thing is to keep focused and do whatever you have to reach your goal, even if it means having a 'humble attitude'.

Hope it helps.

blondie

Well, Winston, fellow fader. Uriah was right about not stirring up the waters and letting it settle. Even if Jesus himself came down to talk with them, they would not believe him, probably DF him. Pearls before swine. As to your wife, she needs your continued loving support in a peaceful setting.

Blondie

They're turning up the heat

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