Hell Exists

by Poppy520 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • fulltimestudent

    Poppy520: When we want to prove something - we go straight to the Scriptures.

    Aaawww!!! That's a bit self-righteous.

    Actually you go straight to a translation of the scriptures, and its debatable whether any translation is entirely correct, because some words do not translate well. It is also debatable whether any available document in the original language that is assumed to be authentic is actually an accurate copy of the original, because none of the original text seem to have survived.

    I know all the usual arguments about the YHWH/Jesus combo god being able to preserve the scriptures, but if that's the case, why didn't they preserve the original texts?

  • Poppy520

    Cofty - if you are not a Christian or a believer, I would like to ask you where you get your understanding of good and evil and why you are justified in those understandings. This is a popular argument because it is not possible to answer it without saying there is no good and evil which means Hitler wasn't wrong (just an example). If you believe in God but also believe that God is a sadist for allowing people to reject Him and go to hell, I would urge you to reexamine the severity of sin and how bad it actually is. Because to say it is unfair or wrong for God to allow people to go to Hell by rejecting His free gift of salvation and love, then you are saying, "We aren't really that bad! That wouldn't be justice if we went there!". The scriptures show us clearly that we are evil, disgusting creatures without Jesus. "No one is good but God" "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts" ect. You can look those up yourself. Be careful who you call evil before you check our self.
    As far as the abusive husband analogy, it's more like a Father saying to his son, "You can live here, because I love you, if you are willing to obey me for your own good and love me back - but you cannot live here if you hate me and bring drugs into this house, son." If the son chooses to hate his dad and choose drugs, his dad won't let him live in his home. The son is choosing hatred and drugs, therefore he is choosing to NOT live in his dad's house. You have no place to talk about a God you have no idea about here. Your comments are just destructive and have no basis or defense - they are just you pushing what you believe to be your absolute truth with absolutely no justification for your beliefs.

  • smiddy3

    I know all the usual arguments about the YHWH/Jesus combo god being able to preserve the scriptures, but if that's the case, why didn't they preserve the original texts?

    Maybe it`s simply because they never ever really existed either !

  • MrRoboto

    If god really wanted all to attain to repentance and to not destroy any, why didn't he do the following:

    Preserve all scriptures in original form

    Make all scriptures consistent w/ each other

    Give each generation of mankind the same level of awesome proof of his existence and interest in human affairs

    (Israelites witnessing the parting of the sea would have had a better chance at believing in god than people today who have witnessed nothing but a sh!t-ton of abusive religionists and inconsistent "holy writings")

  • cofty

    Poppy - I was a born-again, evangelical, bible-believing, forgiven, adopted son of god Christian for almost a decade after I left the cult. I know EXACTLY what I am talking about when I call your god an evil moral monster.

    You keep talking about god "allowing" those who don't believe in her to go to hell. You know you are being disingenuous. In other words you are lying for Jesus. Shame on you. Take responsibility. Your concept of god is the most sadistic, fiendish being in the history of mythology.

    You worship and adore this miscreant. What does that say about your moral compass?

  • redpilltwice

    My opinion? Hell is death, the eternal sleep.

    Even the pope calls it spiritual darkness, the being cut off from gods light and grace so why should a religion that has always used fear for a literal hell as a VERY powerful tool to gain authority and wealth give room for a non-literal interpretation in our modern day society? Because they know it's bullshit!

    Also, at this forum much has already been said about religions and how their symbolic presentation of faith and good and evil seems to be directly inspired by movements and seasons of nature, earth and cosmos. Summer and winter, day and night, light and darkness, warmth and cold, birth and death etc.

    We can imagine how weather conditions such as rain that made crops grow and frightning thunder and lightning must have triggered ancient people into looking up and believing in higher and powerfull invisible entities/god(s) high in the sky that need to be pleased to live long and prosper.

    On the other hand, sink holes, earthquakes and vulcanic activities may have given the impression that below us a violent world of torment, fire and death exists.

    This became heaven and hell... embedded in our collective thinking for thousands of years.

    I can understand why it will take time to get those tendencies out of our genes and suppress our emotional instincts that allow or even thrive on superstitious fantasies in our minds.

    I think we're on the good way to no longer allow man made religious authority fueled by fear , unless science will discover some giant bdsm room deep down below our feet. Sooner or later signals and sounds of tormented people would be discovered by hyper sensitive apparatus don't you think?

    You wrote

    Many people of all denominations are beginning to believe that Hell does not exist -

    True, and there is a reason for it... and btw, not this guy

  • never a jw
    never a jw

    Of course Jehovah is very loving to mankind, the evidence is everywhere in the Bible

    • Deuteronomy 22:20-21 But if this charge is true, and the evidence of the young lady’s virginity wasn’t found, 21 they are to bring her to the door of her father’s house. Then the men of the city are to stone her with boulders until she dies for doing a detestable thing in Israel

    Jehovah may not love womankind, but he certainly cares for mankind.

  • Finkelstein

    The concept of Hell or even Heaven are inherently created in ancient mythology.

    Nether really exist accept within the human imagination.

  • Poppy520

    Regardless of how you feel about God in the context of Hell, the scriptures - the Greek texts confirm that Hell is very real. "We go straight to the Scriptures - that's a bit self-righteous! Actually we go straight to the translations..." And isn't that what I did? Didn't I take the Greek and show you what the text says? Now I can't tell you why the original manuscripts weren't saved, we don't have any original manuscripts from Plato but we all accept what's written there. But as far as preserving the original texts, I can't tell why God didn't. I won't pretend like I can - however, I have shown you the Greek, you can do the research yourself and see that the Greek that has been offered is legit and the Watchtower's isn't. Regardless if it was inserted into scriptures or not - that is what is in the canon we have today, even the Watchtower includes it in theirs which is "The most accurate translation there is" (Even though they've had what, 3 revisions? explain that one, Watchtower!). They include it but they change the meaning of a Greek word which all greek scholars can agree is a fake translation.
    Now, if there is no way to prove what was actually there and what has been added or removed, what are you following it for then? What is the point if we can just cherry pick - being unable to trust ANY of the scripture? If the scriptures are SO perverted, how can you trust anything in there? the fact is that you can't! I could argue every single scripture except the fragments from the 1st century. Oh there is something you don't agree with? Then take it out! Who cares? It probably isn't authentic anyway! and if I said sex before marriage is ok, but you show me a scripture saying otherwise, I can always just say, "Well that was probably added!" or make some claim about the greek being false or some outside influence. If we can't trust the scriptures then it is better to throw them away altogether! Man I wish this standard was held to the doctrines the Watchtower teaches. If you disagree with their doctrines then you're labeled an apostate and thrown out of the church to be shunned! They seem to place a LOT of trust in the scripture's authenticity.
    Now, regardless if you believe God is a sadist, asshole, horrible judge or bloodthirsty God because of Hell, it's found in the scriptures that Hell exists and it's there. Cofty, I am by no means a Jehovah's Witness or a part of their cult - But if you think God is a sadist and evil, who do you think you are to judge God? Who do you think you are to deem what is evil and what is good? Under whose authority do you assert your opinions of good and evil?
    Whatever my God says, I stand by it - because it is the truth. I know that He is a just God, as the scriptures tell us, and that He is righteousness. Everything He does is good and He nothing He does is evil - that is what the scriptures tell us. I don't see myself above Him and able to understand Him. I don't even begin to pretend that I know exactly how God works. All I have are the scriptures. But if God created Hell, and even if we throw out the argument that "people send themselves to Hell" and say that God sends the disobedient to Hell - He personally sends them to Hell for rejecting the offer of His love, then I call that righteous judgement and stand by it one hundred percent.

  • Fisherman

    Inferno = Life is a curse.

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