A Secret about DF'ing that Elders will not tell you.

by Amazing 48 Replies latest jw friends

  • SM62
    SM62

    "Church officials said they never advocate their followers violate court orders or state laws. But they acknowledged their doctrine of shunning former members leaves little room for non-Witness parents in the lives of children who are active in the church.

    Jehovah's Witnesses tell children they can associate with their non-Witness parents until they are adults, said Campbell. But once they become adults, they must choose between continuing that association or remaining part of the church."

    When I read this, it made be feel sick. This sort of thing is barbaric and inhumane. I would never stop associating with anyone just because they stopped being a JW, more so if they were a family member. To make someone choose between a religion and their loved ones is ludicrous. Can't they see what they are doing. Don't they know what this sort of thing does to families and communities. Look at Northern Ireland, where marriage between Protestant and Catholic is taboo - it has caused so much grief - these people in Brooklyn are advocating the same thing.

    I really am finding it difficult to be a member of this organisation any longer.

    Terri


  • wheres caleb?
    wheres caleb?

    I agree with Gadget on this one. Application of organizational procedure is subjective. You can carry that article with you and still not be treated fairly. Elders are given the authority to impute motive and won't hesitate to exploit it. I have been aware of this information but am also familiar with how elders will still make judgements about a person's motive in these situations.

    You can show them a scripture that proves your point and they still won't get it. Blind guides is what they are.

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Gadget,

    Thats the official line, but how does it work in practice, especially if you not one of the 'in crowd' in the cong.

    Actually it's the 'secret' line. I agree with you that in practice the JWs are told never to associate with any DF'd or DA'd person ... that's the whole point behind this information that is withheld from the rank & file JWs ... the Elders often do not read or fully comprehend the "Flock" book ... and those that do, will not properly apply this information. Nevertheless, my thought is that if JWs were properly armed with the above disclosure, they could let their conscience feel free to associate with DF'd or DA'd relatives ... or ... better yet, challenge the Society, and end up seeing through this religion, and leave it. - Jim W.

    Hi Metatron,

    Elders can DF you whenever they feel like - for whatever reason they care to trump up - the Society will not intervene

    True ... and I have seen that in action just as you have stated. But, as I noted to Gadget above, if rank & file JWs are properly informed, they can allow their conscience to relax on this and maybe have some association with DF'd or DA'd relatives.

    Hi Where's Caleb,

    I agree with Gadget on this one. Application of organizational procedure is subjective. You can carry that article with you and still not be treated fairly.

    I think my point is being missed. We all know what the JWs do in actual practice. I am talking about how some JWs might let their conscience relax were they armed with this information. It may make it possible for some ex-JWs to enjoy some association with some relatives. Sure, other JWs will not apply this ... but for those that do, all the better.

    Actual practice is NOT the issue ... SECRETIVE information that is published is the issue.

    Jim W.

  • Gadget
    Gadget
    Elders can DF you whenever they feel like - for whatever reason they care to trump up - the Society will not intervene

    You get in a jc for many reasons, but you get df'd for not showing the proper atiitude in the jc/having a brown enough nose. If you are counseled that it would be unwise to associate with a df'd person, and you disregard this advice this would show not having the correct attitude and lead to dfing.

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Gadget,

    Read my reply to you just above ... again, I am not arguing about actual practice ... rather what the undisclosed, withheld, secretive information is ... and how being armed may allow """some""" JWs to relax their conscience.

    In actual practice, JWs believe that they are NOT false prophets ... but by digging out information in their distant history that they are not normally exposed to, we can show otherwise ... and as a result "some" Jws leave the religion. - Jim W.

  • teejay
    teejay

    If your JW relative is not trustful of this information, just have him/her talk with the PO and have him bring out his copy of "Flock" book and read it for themselves.

    As a BETTER alternative, your JW relative can also write to the Watchtower Society's Service Department or call them at the Service Desk and ask about this instruction... it is better if your JW relative can get it in written form via response from the Society.


    Excellent post, Jim, and excellent suggestion.

    Once coming online ten years ago, one of my first goals was finding the Flock book and I've had "my own personal copy" ever since. But I never thought about using this information this way.

    Thanks for the "reminder," Bruddah!

    :-)

  • gumby
    gumby

    Jim,

    This is a new point for me. I have had those books since they became available and did not know that paragraph was in there. The 1981 Sept 1..or 15 , Watchtower said nothing of the sort. The article concerning "relatives" and how to treat them if DFed, clearly stated that only buisness association was allowable with a DFed relative. The "flock book" comment you supplied is the only instance I have EVER seen this.

    It would be intresting to see hoe the service dept. would handle this material in view of the 1981 Watchtower.

    I agree as others........this could wake up a few......, but the majority will follow the general hogwash on this matter.

    Thanks for supplying this........I see this as something that is not known or recognised by 99.9% of dubs and ex-dubs.

    Gumby

  • Xena
    Xena

    Well I am not even dfed but my sisters still practice shunning me just on principle don't ya know???...I think they think it makes them more "spiritual"

    But it is nice to know there is underwraps information out there to show them just how unspiritual they really are lol nothing like turning their own words against them...course being the dubs that they are they would probably refuse to look at this information because it is in the "secret" elders manual..something not ment for their eyes. they really can be sheep like at times can't they???

    Who knows though...knowledge IS power!

  • xjw_b12
    xjw_b12

    Amazing. I also don't recall reading that (earlier version I beleive)

    But how many elders actually know this, and how many will actually apply it,seeing the general consensus, is to avoid the "unbelievers" at all costs.

    Seems the expression this time has changed to "Do as I do, not as I say"

  • gumby
    gumby

    Jim,

    Can you copy and paste the material you presented. Visuals seem to have more impact. I had the flock books bookmarked but can't locate them. I have personal copies, but am to illiterate to scan and send it.

    Gumby

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