Possible leak from Annual Meeting 2018

by Listener 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Listener

  I'm a member on JW Talk (until now at least) and have been regularly checking up on their thread regarding the Annual Meeting. There hasn't been a great deal to report on except for this recent post that has been made. I may get outed but that's no loss. The post sounds pretty credible and comes from someone who says they heard it live.

  Brother Morris identified the King of the North as Russia and it's allies. The identity has not changed as the Soviet Union was dissolved but now many of these former satellite states are now independent but follow Russia's lead. So the King of the North is now Russia and its allies. The GB prayed long about this decision but came to the conclusion that the pushing between the King of the North and South, like during the cold war, is today fulfilled in Cyber attacks, occupation of the Crimea peninsula which resulted in trade sanctions and trade wars, largest military exercise of Russia and it's allies. Also the King of the North leads in persecuting the witnesses like Nazi Germany who was then the King of the North. Also King of the North enters into the land of decoration which we have long maintained is our spiritual paradise. In Russia on an unprecedented scale properties were confiscated and brothers were arrested. The NWT is an extremist piece of literature and anyone possessing it is labeled an extremist. We can not say when the GT will start Governments don't have the plans yet but Jehovah will put it into their hearts. However, the actions of the King of the North and South precede the GT and when BTG has been destroyed a period of time will be here when we can say "This is It" our deliverance is near because the attack on God's people is imminent.

  
  Brother Sanderson further discussed these 4 points:
  1. Follow Directions and be obedient.
  2. Don't panic. Don't ban yourself. (21 brothers arrested but thousands are not).
  3. Protect your spiritual food
  4. Love one another intensely from the heart. Stand with our brothers.
  
  I guess the comment about hiding literature is based on point 3 protect your spiritual food which is much more then just hiding some literature. Often during these talks you get sometimes comments by the speakers that bring smiles and laughter. Brother Morrison is known for that as he started his talk with a comment about brother Let who was chairman that was funny which I am sure will not appear in print. Just like at a past annual meting the banter between brother Herd and Jackson when after brother Jackson's talk brother Herd said "I used to give talks like this" with brother Morrison next speaker saying "I remember those talks and wish you would still give them". The following year brother Jackson was chairman and made a comment after brother Herd's talk that evoked laughter and he followed it up with the statement "I waited a whole year for this moment". None of this appeared in print. So when the clear direction is to hide your literature is conveyed, then be obedient and follow direction, otherwise it is up to each individual one of us to protect our spiritual food just like we wood safeguard physical food. In the meantime the GB can assume that the listening audience in the auditorium have decades of faithful service and can make the distinction between what is a lighthearted comment and what is a serious announcement that could become policy or spiritual food.
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  Listener

  It doesn't say whether it is the poster that makes the conclusion that the identity of the KON has virtually not changed or whether that was a comment made by Morris III but due to the detail, it may be Morris'. Given that there was a time when they decided it wasn't the USSR and didn't know who it was, it's not only a demonstration of their flip flopping but that they are just guessing.
  
  

  Whether it is fake news or not regarding Russia being involved in Cyber attacks, the GB believes it. So much for easily being swayed by the media. Do they have evidence or are they simply willing to believe in news reports? By making this claim, without evidence, they are involving themselves in politics and cannot claim to be either neutral or taking heed of their own instructions by not discussing these types of things.
  
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  smiddy3

  When the news media make reports about child sexual abuse in the JW religion its fake news/apostate lies ,.

  Yet when the same news media makes reports about the so called persecution of their religion its taken seriously as absolute gospel truth.

  My mind boggles.
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  Drearyweather

  Given that there was a time when they decided it wasn't the USSR and didn't know who it was, it's not only a demonstration of their flip flopping but that they are just guessing.

  Interesting. Can you elaborate more on this? When was the time when they flip-flopped regarding the identity?

  As far as I remember, in 1800's Germanic empire under Wilhelm was the KON, followed by Nazi Germany as the KON under Hitler before WW2, then followed by Communist bloc under the soviet union as the KON till it broke apart in 1991. When the Soviet disintegrated, WT announced that it would wait and see which empire assumes the identity of the KON.

  I may be wrong, but I don't remember when they told that Soviet isn't the KON and they don't know who it is (both at the same time).
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  Listener

  The New World (1942) p 324
  

  "The king of the north" "included the Central Powers, or imperial Germany, Roman-Catholic Austria-Hungary, Roman Catholic Italy and Vatican…Japan…"

  
  W 60 2/15

  With the defeat of the Nazi-Fascist Axis powers in 1945 the Communist government of Russia stepped into the role of the “king of the north,” foretold in Daniel’s prophecy, chapter 11.

  W 81 7/15
  

  Since the modern “king of the north” is the Communist bloc, led by the Soviet Union, the “king of the south” can be none other than the rival non-Communist bloc, under the leadership of the United States.

  W93 11/1

  So who is the king of the north now? Is he to be identified with one of the countries that were part of the old Soviet Union? Or is he changing identitycompletely, as he has a number of times before? We cannot say. Who will be the king of the north when Daniel 11:44, 45 is fulfilled?
  

  
  W15 5/15
  

  As keen students of God’s Word, we wait with eager anticipation to see who in the near future will assume the role of “the king of the north.”
  

  
  From what I can gather, they have said that the KON's identity keeps changing.
  
  
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  Drearyweather
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  Listener

  Regarding the posters comment -
  
  

  Also King of the North enters into the land of decoration which we have long maintained is our spiritual paradise.

  
  I found this regarding the 'holy mountain of decoration' -
  
  

  Daniel 11:40-45
  40“In the time of the end the king of the south will engage with him in a pushing,* and against him the king of the north will storm with chariots and horsemen and many ships; and he will enter into the lands and sweep through like a flood. 41 He will also enter into the land of the Decoration,*+ and many lands will be made to stumble. But these are the ones that will escape out of his hand: Eʹdom and Moʹab and the main part of the Amʹmon·ites. He will also enter into the land of the Decoration,*+ and many lands will be made to stumble. But these are the ones that will escape out of his hand: Eʹdom and Moʹab and the main part of the Amʹmon·ites. 42 And he will keep thrusting out his hand against the lands; and as regards the land of Egypt, she will not escape. And he will keep thrusting out his hand against the lands; and as regards the land of Egypt, she will not escape. 43 And he will rule over the hidden treasures of gold and silver and over all the desirable* things of Egypt. And the Libʹy·ans and the E·thi·oʹpi·ans will be at his steps.*And he will rule over the hidden treasures of gold and silver and over all the desirable* things of Egypt. And the Libʹy·ans and the E·thi·oʹpi·ans will be at his steps.*44 “But reports out of the east* and out of the north will disturb him, and he will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction. 45 And he will plant his royal*tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration;*+ and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.And he will plant his royal*tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration;*+ and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.

  Watchtower 87 7/1
  16 These final days are especially difficult for God’s people, who during this century have been persecuted by both kings. The angel warned that the king of the north “will also actually enter into the land of the Decoration, and there will be many lands that will be made to stumble.” “The land of the Decoration” is symbolically the land of God’s people. The angel’s words must mean, then, that as well as conquering many nations, the king of the north attacks the spiritual estate of Jehovah’s people. (Daniel 8:9; 11:41-44;Ezekiel 20:6) In Dan 11 verse 45, the prophecy adds: “And he will plant his palatial tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration.” In other words, he positions himself to make a final assault against their spiritual paradise....Since this attack, like that of the king of the north, takes place in the final part of the days, it is reasonable to conclude that the king of the north’s ‘planting of his palatial tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration’ is in support of Gog’s attack. (Daniel 11:40, 45)
  

  
  
  
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  Drearyweather

  Yes, the identity of the KON keeps changing because the empires that stepped in the role stopped existing altogether.

  For e.g. t Nazi-Fascist Germany became the KON in 1919, because the Central Powers dissolved in 1918. Similarly, from 1945, the Soviet became the KON, because Nazi Germany was dissolved in 1944-45. Soviet ceased as the KON in 1991 because it disintegrated. I don't think there has been a time when the WT changed the identity of the KON while the empire was still in existence.

  What we see here is a succession of empires that have stepped in the role of the KON.

  "King of the North" is a title, same as what we call "The President of the USA" or "Pope". The title remains the same, but many individuals will fill in the roles in succession.

  For e.g., when we say "The President of the USA had declared war on Nazi Germany", "The President of the USA had resigned due to the watergate scandal", "The President of the USA decided to build a wall on the border", we are here speaking about one title, but different individuals. The individual changes, the title remains.

  I don't think WT has flip-flopped regarding the identity of the KON. Flip-flop means reversal, and I don't think WT has ever reversed itself here. , i.e. they told that USSR was the KON, but then told that it isn't- while USSR was still in existence.
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  Half banana

  It does make sense for the grubby Russian leadership to ban JWs after receiving from them a starring role in Bible prophecy.

  It is absurd to think that the Bible ever had in mind anything other than the political powers of its own time in the second century BCE. Why should we today be the focus of all the attention? it is only our limited view and fear of God which makes us think we are the important ones. However, this tricky scripture in Daniel has led millions of believers to get the prophecy bug and hang on every turn of world events looking for "the great tribulation".

  Actually there is a much happier way of life which ignores all this childish speculation. In other words don't get hooked on this Bible mumbo jumbo, it only puts the fund into fundamentalism to keep them deceiving people. (He said crossly)
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  DATA-DOG

  Well, people are dumb. I’m amazed at all the Xians who constantly pray for Israel as if “God” gives a crap about that hunk of desert.

  If you stop and think about all the progress that cannot take place because of Xian politicians and their delusions of Israel’s importance, it’s truly mind-boggling.

  The land from whence the dusty scrolls originated that now form the Bible, per the whims of the Council of Nicea, are still controlling our lives for the most part. Hell, even the President still swears on the Bible..

  Dubs aren’t much different. They need their prophecies to be true. Tomo and the crew are desperate to stay relevant and have been painted into a corner. They can’t stop now.

  Like the old, white Politicians of the USA, the GB need to die off. As time goes on, the ORG will continue to change, or it will die. Hopefully it will become more mainstream and allow more freedom, but a couple generations need to die off.

  Anyway, get out now, because it’s your life and the clock is ticking..

  DD