Help me with the disfellowshipping topic, how is it NOT scriptural

by LevelThePlayingField 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jwfacts

    Sir82's post is excellent, showing that the Bible discusses "marking" people that do not adhere to Christian standards, even restricting association, but not complete isolation and shunning of that person. Watchtower has created a policy that does not appear in the Bible, and introduced the word disfellowship for that policy. has a section that shows the numerous ways that Watchtower applies its practice of disfellowshipping beyond the Bible.

  • poopie

    Complete shunning is not scriptural.If so prove it.

  • HereIgo

    In my opinion, the key is if the person is CURRENTLY living an unrepentant lifestyle then the scriptural direction is to shun them. However, if a JW sins, even if he sinned in the past and is repentant, often times he/she can still be disfellowshipped which doesn't make sense. This is how JW's twist the scriptures. The fact that the JC leading up to a disfellowshipping is done in private is also against scripture and is a whole other batch of bullshit.

  • Listener
    Listener gives a good all round view on the matter.

    It is to be expected that someone who is not complying with the membership rules of an organization should be stripped of his membership. The Watchtower goes to extremes from the very first step, dobbing people in through to the secret, unrecordable three committee JC then disfellowshipping even when someone has stopped sinning and shunning.

  • smiddy3

    Complete shunning is not scriptural.If so prove it.

    Nowhere in the Bible has Jehovah shunned Satan the book of JOB .Where Satan has the freedom to come and go before Jehovah in Heaven and chat with him .

    Nowhere in the Bible has Jesus shunned Satan in fact the book of Mark shows Jesus spending forty days with Satan allowing him to put tests on him obviously enjoying his company .

    And the book of Revelation clearly shows how how much Jehovah and Jesus like Satan that they let him out of prison and cast him down to earth to spend more time with us humans after the 1000 years have ended ?

    So here we have the Bible accounts of thousands of years where both Jehovah and Jesus have spent time with and conversing with their chief adversary and not shunning him.

    Is that enough Bible facts for you to prove that shunning is un-scriptural ?

  • Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
    Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

    @LevelThePlayingField I've posted some of this email I sent to my parents on this forum in the past, but I'll paste an excerpt from it again. I hope this assists you with your said belief in Christ and the scriptures.

    Bottom line: it's all about context of the writings. Hope my two cents are of some worth:

    First scripture I implore you to re-read is Jon: 10b-11 “do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.”

    For context, please go back just a few verses to verse 7: “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” Verse 10a reinforces this by saying "If anyone comes to to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes…” This is in reference to those who are KNOWINGLY denying the resurrection of Jesus Christ, or that he came in the flesh.

    The second scripture is 1Cor 5:11 “…stop keeping in company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.” Again, context is very import here. This verse is highlighting a special circumstance that the Corinthian congregation was faced with: Verse one of chapter five refers to the man who is sexually immoral with his father’s wife and living with her. This is the person acting as if they were are brother, carrying on as though they were doing nothing wrong and, ultimately, acting like a hypocrite. And notice - in spite all of that - nowhere does this account instruct not to say a greeting to such a person. It’s simply saying not associate with him as normal because he is doing something very disturbing.

    Another detail to take note of: the scripture says, “But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother--” so when one decides to leave the WT organization, they are no longer considered a “brother” or sister. How can this apply to ones who have disassociated? This scripture has nothing to do with refusing to say a greeting to these people in public or shunning them even in private (refusing contact).

    The custom/tradition of disfellowshipping ones and the process of “applying for reinstatement” and undergoing a set period of time of “proving” oneself before contact can be made with family and loved ones is completely foreign to what the Bible teaches. One just has to consider the parable Jesus made about the Prodigal Son. His father saw the son returning from a distance and… subsequently sent three servants to sit with him, test him for repentance and gave him a full twelve months to sit outside the father’s home before even being acknowledged by his family? We both know that’s not how the account went. The father came running, fell upon his son and kissed him tenderly - in SPITE - of not knowing his heart condition. This is the essence of true Christian love, as taught by Christ. It is unconditional.

    As for sinners who still wish to belong to the organization, WT offers us this scripture from 2Thes 3:14 “But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter keep this one marked and stop associating with him, so that he may become ashamed.” Verse 15 reconciles this with “And yet do NOT consider him an enemy, but CONTINUE ADMONISHING HIM AS A BROTHER.” Contrast this with the coldness of shunning as practiced by the Society with video dramatizations and WT articles urging family to not even answer the phone if their disfellowshipped son/daughter/parent is calling. Remember, the Prodigal Son’s father saw his son from a LONG WAY OFF and didn’t have the indoctrinated reflex to turn his face the other way.

  • smiddy3

    Are not Jehovah and Christ Jesus the bench marks here as to what is to be believed and acted upon ? And not what some humans who later down the track claim to be their followers and misinterpret their words ?

    Do Christians and Bible believers actually believe what the Bible actually says or do they believe in what imperfect humans say the scriptures mean and not what the scriptures actually say ?

    It does not matter two hoots what later Bible writers say or not say about shunning what matters and what counts is how Jehovah God and Christ Jesus acted towards Satan the chief instigator against Jehovah God and neither of them shunned him in what will be at least 7000 years of human history at least.

  • stillin

    I prefer to think that the admonition to "shun" is more of a personal nature, not a blanket command for an entire organization. And it is sensible to distance yourself from even a friend if he has taken a seriously wrong turn in life. But to turn your back on a friend simply because some men in a room say that you must can't be right.

    Examples of friends that I would no longer want:

    serious drug use, overindulging in alcohol, all about sex, any sex, whatever and wherever sex, thievery, cruelty, plotting manipulation, unnecessarily prone to violence, abusive to all, too religious any religion,

    I just realized that there is a huge list of people that I would no longer want to have as friends if they should begin acting certain ways. My guess is that everybody here has a list like that. Some people just don't deserve our friendship. Sure, you try to reach them but once they make up their mind you start to steer clear of them. If they ever figure it out, maybe they will look you up and the friendship will pick up again.

    That's all I think is meant in the scripture.

  • dubstepped

    Where does it ever say to shun someone for the rest of their life even if they changed their behavior simply because they didn't come back and undergo a process of reinstatement that is also not Biblical? Why is a person forever defined by one moment?

  • Crazyguy

    Yes that my biggest pet peeve. Even if one is shunned because he’s doing something very wrong in the congregation and then was kicked out, no where does it say that if this one stops and is repentant he is to be still shunned for another year or two until the elders decided to stop it.

    Something else to consider and maybe inwrong on this but I believe that 2 Corinthians was written as a type of apology for the things written in 1 Corinthians. So Paul had a change of heart.

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