Help me with the disfellowshipping topic, how is it NOT scriptural
I need your help. Many have said that Jesus never shunned anyone. Yet it seems that the Apostle Paul said to shun an unrepentant sinner, "stop keeping company" and "not even eating with such a man" 1Co 5:9-12. It seems like shunning is what Paul wanted us to do. But honestly, it doesn't seem right to me.
So how do you know that shunning is not God's way, for those of you who still believe. How, from a biblical stand point do you reconcile this?
Cofty, if you could respond to this as well, I would much like to hear what you have to say, as I respect your in depth knowledge.
Any help would be appreciated. I have learned that the truth does not come from Jehovah's Witnesses. So I am open to what you have to say.
Level, that is the problem with the Bible, not all of the Bible writers had the same attitudes. Paul has always seemed mean spirited to me. I think he had his own extra ideas, to add to Jesus'.
Apparently, the idea is
'....altogether foreign to bible teachings....' AWAKE Jan 8 1947
Reading this made me laugh out loud. Even though one knows about, understands the extent of and is not surprised by the hypocrisy of the WT, it never the less continues to make me shake my head.
How quick are they to point their fingers at the religions of the world, religions that they say practice false teachings and in the same breath practice the exact same 'sin'.
It is stomach churning to me to read some of the things that they preach and then ultimately deny.
Cult in deeds & indeed.
Many have said that Jesus never shunned anyone. Yet it seems that the Apostle Paul said to shun an unrepentant sinner, "stop keeping company" and "not even eating with such a man"
Well, both of those are true. Jesus never shunned anybody. And Paul did say that.
What Paul said is not at the same level of what is done inside the Watchtower.
For example, I've had friends before, where after seeing some things they were doing, i decided to slowly back away from the friendship. So I don't invite them over, and i don't make a point of associating. However, this does not mean that if i see them on the street, i'm going to pretend i don't know them. I'll say hi, and a quick chit chat and be on my way. Or if i see them on the side of the road, i'll stop to help. Now, i don't need Paul or any other middle eastern peasant to tell me what to do, but what he says sorta makes sense.
What does not make sense is the extremes that the Washtowell extends this to.
The Kingdom Interlinear is helpful here. You don't even have to know Greek!
1 Corinthians 5:9 (JW justification for shunning):
2 Thessalonians 3:14 (JW scripture to justify "marking", in which the "bad guy" is not shunned:
See that? Exact same, identical Greek word used in 1 Corinthians 5:9 and 2 Thess. 3:14.
JWs use it to mean "completely shun" in 1 Cor. 5:9 and "do not shun" at 2 Thess. 3:14.
The context of 2 Thess. 3:14 shows that the word is not intended to mean "completely shun" - even in the NWT:
Let's say you have a married Christian friend that is sleeping with another man's wife. You go to him and confront him with the truth. He stands his immoral ground; you bring another brother or two and confront him again. He feels justified and continues his behavior still and so you report it to the church. While this is going on you avoid socializing/legitimizing his behavior. The church invites him to a judicial meeting where he either repents or elects to go his own way. If he chooses the latter, the church disfellowships him. Now he becomes a publican and a sinner or a man of the world to you. And how did Jesus treat publicans and sinners? He did not ostracize them; instead he admonished them to repent.
My opinion is that Paul was one of the first apostates, going against the idea of jesus being loving towards all. Just an idea, nothing to base that on :)
Vanderhoven7 has nailed it here.
And also dpq407 is spot on. Paul claimed to have been chosen by Jesus as an apostle. But many things he teaches are so unlike the character Jesus. Also, the letters he written to the congregations, were they shared among all the congregations or just for that one? Was he giving council to specific congregations or what?
At the end of the day, a Christian is to be a follower of Jesus, not Paul.
There was no one year rule, the man in Corinth was out for a couple months apparently. Some things are appalling to even the world. The whole congregation knew the what and why so could judge for themselves on fairness. There was no command for families to engage in "necessary business" only. There was probably a double standard on popularity and who you knew or were related to (elders kids?) but it couldn't have been any worse than nowadays. There were no perpetual records kept in some central oversight group. There was no enforcer who visited regularly to keep things up.