by robrog8999 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • Fernando

    Hello Robert

    What are your thoughts on the 5 solas?

  • DesirousOfChange

    Basically, I just feel God set the bible out for us to learn and understand Him.

    Then is would really appear that God has a preference for white European ancestry, as he failed to provide the Bible as the "central Holy Book" in any other culture. Guess the black and brown and yellow skinned folks on the other side of the world are just f*cked when it comes to getting to know and "understand" God. . . . . . . Doc

  • cofty
    But I will continue in my Bible study and research until I find the one that i believe PERSONALLY , is in line with the Bible and has all biblical teachings - Robert

    Hi Robert.

    You are making a huge untested assumption that the bible is a valid basis for truth.

    I did the very same thing when I left the cult. It took me 9 years to find the intellectual honesty to examine that. Of course I was convinced I had examined it objectively as I am sure you are. I was a born-again evangelical christian for almost a decade. As a former christian who changed my mind for evidential reasons I have information you need. But you have slammed that door shut because you fear losing the foundation of your current worldview.

    Let me know if you want to talk about it.

  • Saename

    If you're still visiting the website, which I assume you do not since you learned its users are mostly ex-Jehovah's Witnesses, try to learn about child sexual abuse in the religion. I understand that child sexual abuse can happen in every religion because of bad individuals who happen to be sexual predators; however, it is not the case with Jehovah's Witnesses. The problem in this religion is not that certain individuals abuse children; the main problem is that the religion itself and its administrative policies are there to protect paedophiles.

    I suggest you to learn about the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse and what it has determined in regards to the Jehovah's Witness religion. If you do not have time, check those clips available on Youtube that show what happened in court:

    If, however, you do have time, watch all 8 days of interrogations and investigation. All 8 days are available on Youtube also. Here is a playlist of all days:

    In addition to the above, a similar investigation is being led in the UK. In the UK, the organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses were told and directly ordered by the Charity Commission not to destroy any evidence in regards to child sexual abuse situation in the religion. However, the leaders of the organisation, called the Governing Body, sent a letter to the elders in the UK commanding them to destroy all evidence of child sexual abuse. You can find everything in the news. Here is one article:

    You may also read this Wikipedia article in regards to this issue, and remember to pay attention to the section on the topic of the two-witness rule, which is especially troubling:

  • Londo111


    In any endeavor in life, whether buying a car or finding a spiritual path, one needs to look at all sides. For a religion or church, you need to hear from members and former members.

    If you were buying a used car, wouldn’t you want to hear if there were a high rate of dissatisfied customers? Why are they dissatisfied? Would you only listen to the car salesman and their brochures?

    I would definitely balance what you are reading on the official website with:

    For the record, the Jehovah’s Witness religion does teach that it is the one and only restoration of first century Christianity. In fact, the current teaching is that in the year 1919, Christ chose the leaders (the Governing Body, who lead Jehovah’s Witnesses) as “the faithful and discreet slave”, the sole channel God is using to communicate with mankind. This is the core JW teaching around which everything else revolves. Their literature says: “Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel."

    Do you believe that your relationship with God depends on recognizing seven men in New York as “the faithful and discreet slave?” Do you believe that Jesus appointed the governing body in 1919 as God’s sole channel? If you are a JW and say no, then you are subsequently expelled and shunned. You are labeled an “apostate”.

    Your friend’s mother took a blood transfusion and was excommunicated and shunned. By your own admission, the family was torn apart. This is par for the course. It has been estimated that 50000 people have died because the JW leadership not only bans blood transfusions, it enforces this ban with expulsion and shunning. Some elders are part of Hospital Liaison Committees who are there to help ensure JWs comply when they are in the hospital. BTW…blood transfusions and donating blood are banned, but blood fractions are allowed as of 2000.

    Tens of thousands of people a year are disfellowshipped and subsequently shunned by their friends and family. This has resulted in countless suicides. The pain is very real, especially since JWs are taught only to make friends with other JWs. Overnight, a person can lose their whole support system and social network.

    What can you be disfellowshipped for? Celebrating any holiday, like Christmas or a birthday. Not agreeing with Watchtower teachings (like Jesus invisible presence began in 1914, the ban on blood transfusion, ect…), associating with a disfellowshiped person….and countless other rules. A JW can be taken into the 'back room' of the Kingdom Hall and interrogated by a “judicial committee”, a panel of 3 elders who act as judge, jury, and executioner. No recordings are allowed. No observers are allowed. There are no defense or character witnesses.

    The reason for this forum is because of this pain and because folks within the organization cannot speak freely or question anything…not without consequences. Some here do not believe in the religion, but still attend and go door to door, because if they choose to do otherwise, they will lose their family.

    A recent Pew poll found that two thirds of those who were raised as a JW no longer were. That is a lot of dissatisfied customers! In the Pew poll of religions, JWs come in dead last when it comes to a retention rate, in higher education, and in income.

    The official website is geared toward outsiders. It is worded in such a way to appear reasonable. However, a little digging can reveal how deceptive the official website is.

    Did not Jesus warn to beware of false prophets who come as wolves in sheep’s clothing? Did he not say, “by their fruits you will know them”?

    JWs set another record on setting of dates when it comes to when Armageddon would happen. To name a few: 1914, 1925, 1975. In 1918, they taught, “Millions now living will never die!” Until 1995, they said it was the Creator’s promise that the generation that saw 1914 would not pass away—now it is taught that the generation is two overlapping groups (one that sees 1914, the other that sees the End).

    In comparison to all this, whether God is one person or three distinct persons with one divine essence seems a non-issue. There are other churches who espouse Arianism. Most churches, people are allowed to be guided by their own conscience and reading of Scripture as to what they personally believe. Even those with an official Trinitarian creed, most would not expel or shun an individual for having another view.

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    Robrog, thanks for coming here and well done in your desire for searching for what is right . You are twenty six, so you have had time to realize that there is actually more to life than religion.

    May I direct you to the possibility that religion is a political scheme of control based on the susceptibility of human nature towards a mystical resolution of all earthly problems.

    Have you considered that your introduction reveals that you are prepared to accept as truth only the things you will agree with such as the baseless notion that the Bible is inerrant and inspired by God?

    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
    Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
    - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

    But I wish you well all the same.

  • deegee

    To say that the Trinity doctrine is unbiblical is not correct as the bible in fact teaches both that Jesus is God/equal to God and that Jesus is God's son. So both Trinitarians and non-Trinitarians can find support for their doctrine in the bible.

    If someone is earnestly searching for the truth regarding any matter, not just religion, I would imagine that the logical/sensible thing to do is to listen to EVERYONE and consider ALL viewpoints, otherwise they will end up shortchanging themselves.

    Biblical historians/persons who engage in Biblical Studies offer another perspective/viewpoint worth considering. The following is a Biblical historian's viewpoint regarding the Trinity doctrine:

  • Ding


    With regard to the Trinity, I would recommend Robert Bowman's book Why You Should Believe in the Trinity.

    I think you'll find that you are rejecting a faulty version of the doctrine rather than the doctrine itself.

    That said, whether you believe in the Trinity or not, if you are searching for a church that is 100% correct on everything, you are on an impossible quest.

    Please stop looking to find the truth in an organization.

    If you believe in Jesus, remember that he said that he himself is the truth (John 14:6).

    Focus on Jesus, not on churches or organizations.

  • LisaRose

    I have come to believe that what is important in a religion is not necessarily doctrine, but whether that religion meets the spiritual needs of the people. You could argue the trinity all day, but what good does it do to find a religion that teaches the correct (in your mind) teaching, if it doesn't meet your needs and treats you poorly? That is what the JWs are to me, a religion that completely fails in supporting it's members. I was a member for thirty years, trust me when I say that they are not good to their people.

    They put way too much emphasis on meeting a set of strict and rigid requirements and far too little emphasis on shepherding and supporting the individual. People are often disfellowshiped and shunned for simple human mistakes, even one time mistakes, even when they do express repentance. Their interpretation of the bible may hit the mark in a few areas, but they also add a lot of questionable beliefs as well, things that are not supported by the bible or are a twisting of the intent.

    They also have incorrectly predicted the end of the world many times, each time claiming that they had special knowledge, and then each time later pretending that they had done no such thing. When I was young they claimed someone my age would have no time for a career in this system of things. I am almost 62, and it saddens me that they are still giving young people this bad advice. The bible has a name for people that do this, they are called false prophets.

  • Pubsinger

    You got two things going on here.

    One is your misunderstanding/disagreement with the trinity doctrine. The other is your total lack of understanding of both the Mormon church and the Jehovah's Witness organisation.

    And I don't think you realise who you're speaking to. We get your long detailed explanations of 'doctrine' and JW/Mormon mechanics.

    I too suggest you get yourself down to the Kingdom Hall and stop trying to educate us. It's way too patronising and we're not buying it. If you claim to be searching for 'biblical purity' but it's taken years of study with the Mormons rather than about 20mins to see that they are ludicrous then you should maybe stop wasting your time and have a word with yourself.

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