As a JW how would you answer this if someone brought it up in the ministry?

by NikL 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • steve2

    And the Is-He-Part-Of-A-Trinity-Or-Is-He-Not? doctrinal side show grinds on and on and on with no end in sight. This could be my adolescence circa 1970s - or my grandpas circa 1920s or Adam's circa 4,000 years B C.

    Meanwhile, beyond the angst of earnest roundabout arguments, life passes us by.

  • smiddy3

    Isa.62:2 says that Gods chosen people would be called by a new name.

    Acts 4:12 speaking about Jesus says their is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.

    Phil.2:9-11 , 10 " So that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground"

    Note : Not in Jehovahs name but in Jesus name.

    Acts 11:26 "by divine providence disciples of Jesus were called Christians"

    Note : By DIVINE PROVIDENCE they were called Christians and NOT Jehovah`s Witnesses .

    and finally after Isa.43: 10-12 The Jews never identified themselves as Jehovah`s Witnesses and Jesus never gave his followers that designation.

  • alanv

    I think the eternal father is nothing to argue about. Once a person becomes a father, he is that until is dying day. So Jesus therefor is an eternal father as he is now living for ever.

  • eyeuse2badub

    If jw's accept and acknowledge jesus as "a mighty god" (*which they do) then aren't they breaking the 1st of the 10 commandments "You MUST NOT HAVE ANY OTHER GODS besides me"?

    just saying!

  • NikL

    f jw's accept and acknowledge jesus as "a mighty god" (*which they do) then aren't they breaking the 1st of the 10 commandments "You MUST NOT HAVE ANY OTHER GODS besides me"?

    I think that's right.

    Amen to everything you said smiddy3

    And the Is-He-Part-Of-A-Trinity-Or-Is-He-Not? doctrinal side show grinds on and on and on with no end in sight. This could be my adolescence circa 1970s - or my grandpas circa 1920s or Adam's circa 4,000 years B C.

    Meanwhile, beyond the angst of earnest roundabout arguments, life passes us by.

    So we just give up on anything spiritual Steve?

    I'm surprised that an ex-JW says they've just noticed the Scripture in Isaiah. Perhaps JWs nowadays really aren't as schooled up in their arguments. Ouch!

    LOL. Like I said, I wasn't a very good witness. But I am a child of the 60s and came to the org in 70s so "nowadays" wouldn't apply. :-)

  • deegee



    Is Jesus God?


    *** The first words of John's gospel imply that Jesus ("the Word") is God.

    John 1:1,14:
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us."

    *** Jesus (sometimes) claimed to be God. By forgiving sins. (Only God can forgive sins.)

    Matthew 9:2-6; Mark 2:3-12:
    "Jesus.......said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth ... That ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house."

    John 5:16-18:
    "Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."

    *** By claiming to be the same as God.

    John 14:9:
    "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father."

    *** By saying that he existed before Abraham, using one of God's names, "I am."

    John 8:58 - 59:
    "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
    After hearing Jesus say these things, the Jews tried to stone him to death for claiming to be God."

    John 10:30-31:
    "I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him."

    John 10:38-39:
    "The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him."

    *** When Thomas called Jesus God, Jesus didn't correct him. Rather, he said that everyone should believe he is God, even those who have never seen him.

    John 20:28-29:
    "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

    *** The New Testament (sometimes) also refers to Jesus as God:

    - That the church of God was purchased with the blood of God (or maybe the Holy Ghost):

    Acts 20:28:
    "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

    - That Jesus created all things:

    Colossians 1:16:
    "For by him [Jesus] were all things created."

    - That the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus bodily:

    Colossians 2:9:
    "For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily."

    - That God was made manifest in Jesus' flesh:

    1 Timothy 3:16:
    "God was made manifest in the flesh."

    - That Jesus is the great God who is in the form of God, is equal to God, and sits on the throne of God."

    Titus 2:13:
    "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ."

    Philippians 2:6:
    "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."

    Hebrews 1:8
    "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

    *** In the book of Revelation, Jesus calls himself the first and the last, and the alpha and the omega:

    Revelation 1:17:
    "I am the first and the last."

    Revelation 22:13:
    "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

  • deegee


    Is Jesus God?


    *** God cannot be tempted.

    James 1:13:
    "God cannot be tempted."

    Yet Jesus was tempted. (So he isn't God):

    Matthew 4:1; Luke 4:1-2:
    "Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
    Jesus.......Being forty days tempted of the devil."

    Hebrews 4:14-15:
    "Jesus........was in all points tempted as we are.

    *** Jesus (sometimes) denied that he was God.

    By saying:

    - That he was neither good nor God:

    Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18:
    "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."

    - That his father was greater than he was:

    John 14:28:
    "My Father is greater than I."

    - That he was just a man, a child of God like everyone else:

    John 20:17:
    "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

    John 8:40:
    "But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God."

    - As he was dying, Jesus asked God why he had forsaken him (can God forsake God?):

    Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34:
    "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? "

    *** After Jesus died, he sat on the right hand of God (can God sit on his own right side?):

    Mark 16:19:
    "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."

    Colossians 3:1:
    "Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."

    1 Peter 3:21-22;
    "Jesus Christ: who is........on the right hand of God."

    *** Jesus is the man God chose to judge other men and be their mediator:

    Acts 17:31:
    "Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."

    1 Timothy 2:5:
    "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

    *** He is still subject to God:

    1 Corinthians 15:28:
    "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

    *** God knows more than Jesus:

    Matthew 24:36:
    "Of that day and hour knoweth no man, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

    *** The Trinity - God in three persons - is a concept completely foreign to Jewish thought:

    Deuteronomy 6:4
    “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.”

    Deuteronomy 32:39 (compare especially to John 1:1):
    “See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me."

    Isaiah 46:9:
    “I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.”

  • Xanthippe

    NikL My question would be why do the Christian churches want to believe in a trinity? What's the appeal. My teacher at school who also ran the Christian debating society said it's like an ocean that can send waves into three bays. Same ocean, three different manifestations- or something. All very picturesque but what's the point? I wonder why they like this teaching, I suppose because I know all religious beliefs are man made. Thoughts?

  • NikL

    But degree...Christians believe Jesus was fully human. There fore he could be tempted. As a matter of fact he had to be fully human in order for the whole ransom thing to work out no?

    I've head it expressed as Jesus is God in a bod. LOL

    Seriously though, why is it impossible for a being so great as to create the entire universe, who can count every hair on my head (which is getting easier each passing year but I digress) to be multiple persons in different places at the same time?

  • NikL


    all religious beliefs are man made.

    I can see where you would believe that. Maybe that's what the enemy wants us to think?

    Even when I first left the JWs and was bitter toward all religion, I still felt there was a God.

    Do I think we will ever have it ALL right? Nope. Not in our imperfect broken existence here on Earth. All we can do is the best we can. There is a pretty good guide in the words of our Lord Jesus though. If you live the way he commanded us to live, life is pretty good.

    My feelings about the Trinity are something like this...God the father is God as a spirit. No man can see him because he is a spirit.

    Jesus was God in the flesh. He came down in human form to save us.

    The holy spirit is God in action in the physical world.

    My beliefs are rather fluid at this point so they may change but that's where my head is now.

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